Tuesday, October 13, 2009

The high costs of the BC Harmonized Sales Tax - calculate your own potential losses

Save now because the HST is looming to pick your pocket

Bill Tieleman's 24 hours/The Tyee column

Tuesday October 13, 2009

By Bill Tieleman

Consumers will pay more — there's no getting around it. The truth is it is a shift in taxation.

- Stephen Spector, Certified General Accountants Association of B.C. president

How much will the B.C. Liberals’ Harmonized Sales Tax cost you?

If Premier Gordon Campbell isn’t stopped, consumers will pay $1.9 billion a year in HST, with the revenue going to big business, not public services.

But how much more would you personally pay if the B.C. sales tax on previously exempted goods and services jumps from the 5% GST to the 12% HST?

Let’s look at some of the new HST costs.

The food and non-alcoholic drink portion of restaurant meals jumps 7%. If you spend $100 a month, add $84 extra HST a year.

Watch TV? On a monthly $60 cable bill, HST adds an extra $50.40.

Surf the Internet? At $50 a month, the HST adds $42 a year.

Belong to a gym? Play golf? Watch the Canucks? You can add 7% more on all of these.

Gym fees of $40 a month would mean an extra $33.60 a year. The HST on two tickets to a Canucks game for $142 is $9.94. Play weekend golf at the University of B.C. eight times for $560 and add $39.20 HST.

Love theatre? Spend $300 on tickets, add $21 in HST. Catch a movie? At $12.50 a ticket, going once a month will add $10.50 in HST annually.

Got a phone? And cell phone? If you spend $100 monthly on both – and good luck! – that means an extra HST charge of $84.

Subscribe to a daily newspaper [when 24 hours is free]? The Vancouver Sun and Province daily delivery annual rate of $530 will mean over $37 extra HST.

Have a dog or cat? If Fido or Fluffy need serious veterinarian help, a $1,000 bill will be $70 more with HST.

But enough small stuff – let’s spend some real money.

How about that big trip to Europe next summer? Airline tickets for two - $3,000. Experience – priceless. New HST charges - $210.

Buying a brand new home? Houses and apartments priced under $400,000 get an HST rebate but 40% of all sales in B.C. cost more than that.

So for an $800,000 house, Vancouver Real Estate Direct estimates you’ll pay a whopping extra $36,140.

And don’t forget real estate commission fees go up from 5% to 12% HST.

Own a condo? All building maintenance as well as property management firm fees will get an extra 7% HST too.

Even death can’t cheat the HST - funeral services go up an extra 7% too!

And this is only a partial list. Unfortunately, the B.C. government website on HST for some strange reason doesn’t even have all these examples, let alone a complete list.

But if you’ve had enough of harmonization go to
www.FightHST.com and sign up. And join my 127,000 member NO BC HST protest group on Facebook as well.



Ron said...

Tim Hudak, the Ontario Tory leader, says that the Harper Sales Tax will add about $150 to $200 per year for renters in Ontario i.e increased heating costs/management fees etc. passed on by owners.

Would that be about right here?

Bill Tieleman said...

Hi Ron - probably - the Condominium Home Owners Association say the HST will add about 3% to 7% of your condo maintenance fees - if you pay $350 a month, that would be between $126 and $294 a year.

Kyle Harms said...

Bill - I have read your blog before and tend to follow it closely just to see what you are saying and Sometimes I have agreed with your Point of View, other times I have disagreed. Generally I have kept my comments to a minimum however this time I need to speak up.
I have done much research on BC HST for University, currently in pursuit of a degree in Poli Sci and Economics. I also run a business (www.knowyourvote.ca) which helps connect young people to there politicians.

I want the Public to know a few things about your above post: (all of the following has been sourced and upon request, I can forward anyone the source list)
Digital Tv, High Speed Internet and the Digital Phone through Shaw TV are available Bundled for $100/month (minus a few cents) you say that Tv is $60, internet is $50 and a phone is $100 your costs total $210 that is DOUBLE actual costs meaning that in my estimate people will pay $144 in HST not your estimated $176.40.
Secondly - Buyers of homes, if you are purchasing a new home, YES you pay HST but are eligible for a $20,000 rebate on that purchase thus the $36000 extra you say will be tacked on by HST is inaccurate off by a mere 16, 000. however even more staggering is something you fail to mention - Used homes will not be susceptible to HST at all. zilch HST.
Canucks games - Let me be frank about this, I feel as though they are over priced however I will continue to stick to your examples - you say $142/game I say bogus, actual retail price - $120/game (still too much)
Movies - although it is rare that some people go to 4 or 5 movies per year we can again go on your estimate that in fact we go to 1 every month (12 for the whole year) your estimate is set at $12.50/movie. The National association of Theater Owners in the US sets the average ticket price at $8 - meaning we pay about $96 a far cry from your estimated $166.
continuing, you say Golf at UBC costs $560 if you go 8 times/year. Firstly, as a golfer if you go 8 times to one club you should probably invest in a punch card of flex pass. If you do not you will only pay $480 not $560.
You also say a subscription to the Province will cost $530/year, WRONG! through deals or offers it can cost as little as $280/year again HALF of what you say
Finally you say that a trip to Europe will cost $300 (just for airfare) this accounting for $210 in HST a quick trip to expedia proves this to be false as well. A roundtrip airfare from Vancouver to Frankfurt on United Airways will cost only $1122 about 60% of what you estimate. this would be susceptible to about $135 in HST not $210.
and as per your final comment regarding lack of info from the BC Government website, maybe your glasses are not strong enough, in recent weeks they have re-designed the HST portion of the website making it very User-friendly, including things such as a video, facts, questions, expert analysis, and many more awesome features; I highly recommend it to anyone http://www.gov.bc.ca/hst/
I am not saying that HST is the greatest thing out there, I am suggesting people look at who you are sourcing, because a quick trip to any website to do some legitimate research on this topic shows much less of an impact then you claim. I suggest to people to citizens to look more closely at your articles and take them with room for much caution because as I have just proved, You to Bill do Lie.

Anonymous said...

Dontcha just love these guys who just act all non-partisan, but are really just Libs?

Kyle Harms: proprietor of knowyourvote.ca. Here's his albeit limited profile on the BC Young Liberals website.


As Holman would say: Fancy That!

Grant G said...

Kyle,not to burst your bubble but...
What cable/phone/internt bundles one might have,not everyone has bundles....
A 800.000.00$ new home..7% is 56.000.00$ less 20.000.00$ leaves 36.000.00$
People usually fly in at least pairs for holidays,what about families,how much flights cost rise and fall.

Newspaper promotions are temporary.

I have nephews and neices that go to the movies every week,so that`s 50 movies a year.

I used to golf regularly before I was injured, I would golf every week during good weather,however,I never bought large packages for one golf course,and how many golf courses offer that? Maybe people should save more money by buying a 150.000.00$ golf membership for classy golf courses.

As for Bill T,you say he is lying,your a joke Kyle,an average funeral is 10.000.00$,that`s a 1200.00$ hit.

Next thing Kyle you will be saying that if people travel to the USA to avoid the HST they can save even more.
Not to mention the HST on fees for mutual funds,well Kyle,what do you suggest? a savings account.

I suggest you stay in school or go into politics,considering you have learned how to spin at a young age.

Cheers-Eyes Wide Open

Kam Lee said...

WoW! Where did gordo find this loser? Kyle, smells like a lib, squrims like a lib, drinks like a lib, etc...IS A LIB! Enough of the crap Kyle, I did my home work and it will cost my family over $900.00more. Along with his continual lies, gordo will stop at nothing to grease his friends wheels. Selling out the province, lying to all... give us back our province. By the way Kyle, I believe Bill.

Bill Tieleman said...

Kyle - Harms or otherwise, Young BC Liberal or otherwise - is this the best you can do? Really?

The costs I have cited can all be checked - people may have different rates based on their service provider but that's not the point - it's that the HST will add a heck of a lot of additional costs on ordinary BC consumers!

The Sun and Province subscription prices, for example, come straight from their own websites!

Lastly, when you accuse someone of lying - which I allowed despite it being both offensive and untrue - you draw attention to the two biggest liars in BC - the premier and finance minister you obviously support who didn't tell the truth about BC's massive budget deficit until after the election and who lied to restaurant and homebuilders associations about not introducing the HST, and then doing it after the election.

D Wayne said...

Honesty is always the best policy, that's why I never show support for those who lie and/or withhold information unless it suits their purpose. Obviously I despise the Liberals because even when they tell the truth which isn't too often, it's more rhetoric than anything with substance. But I also can't stand the NDP for the same reasons, no substance to most of their questions during Question Period and wait until 2013 for their brand of deception and spin. Nobody is in Gordo's league but they'll be there soon enough doing their best to cover their asses with spin and rhetoric. Then there's all the falsehoods put together by the NO-STV campaign crew just to make sure we get stuck with the same crappy choices for government for another generation, especially that president guy, you gotta figure he's responsible for their lies. I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to admit it though. He sounds too arrogant to care about anything but his pocketbook, almost sounds like a Liberal himself. I know that's not true, he has a family and no doubt is a super guy away from his political views, I'm just saying he seems arrogant most of the time here. Iknow, I know, Bill. "We STV people need to stop blaming you and move on". There, I saved you the bother of responding. Unless you still wish to deny the lies that were spread during the referendum. And what a waste of effort too, the referendum was lost before the NO ads came out simply because their wasn't enough info getting out that there WAS a referendum and even the YES side was too screwed up to get the info out. It makes me wonder why was it so important to have that extra insurance that you just couldn't take a chance on an honest campaign. Was it because with that scenario you were worried that people might honestly want a positive change from the garbage we are force fed now ? Was that the reason you had to lie, Bill ? Oops, just noticed your answer earlier, what a silly question because as we all know, you don't lie and I know that because you told us so. Well that's a solid argument. On May 9 an acquaintance sent me an e-mail, saying that he had decided a long time ago that anything that Christy Clark thought was a good idea (STV) was probably a bad idea and nothing in her last minute endorsement video changed his mind. On May 11 he sent an e-mail saying he had done some reading over the weekend (gathering true information) and decided that STV was a good idea (in his opinion) and so he voted for it. Well, I decided a long time ago that anything Bill Tieleman thinks is a good idea, probably is a bad idea and nothing I have read here in the last few months changes that. Your opportunity to change that is whenever you want. I'm eager to hear how you would like to see taxes (HST or otherwise) applied to help us out of debt. I'm still waiting to hear what your choice for an electoral system would be, not just what you are opposed to. NO-Liberal, NO-STV, NO-HST. Is that what you're all about ? Waiting for something to come along with enough opposition that you can bring your negative persona into the public eye to be adored by all ? I hope you will think about all this even if you don't print it. I may not like you but I would be willing to listen and perhaps change my mind if I see some positive ideas for change from you. The two things we know for sure are that our system is not functioning properly as is so a change is necessary and our best chance for that to happen somewhere down the road was sabotaged on May 12, 2009. STV isn't the answer, but it was the way to get on the right track and move towards a solution instead of going in circles. I hope you can and I'm sure you do sleep well at night. I know I couldn't if I were you.

Bill Tieleman said...

D Wayne - name the "lies" - I'll answer every charge you can make.

And I'm also NO BS - so far, you're just full of it.

Kyle Harms said...

Anonymous - I would tell anyone (if you are too stupid to figure out from my comment) that I am a BC Liberal and am on the Board for the BCYL. Know Your Vote is a separate entity which is whole heartily non-partisan.

Kam Lee - It will cost your family $900 assuming prices dont drop. (see below) my point by my comment is that it costs everyone different amounts so why should we all believe Bill? he eats differently then we all do and goes to more or less movies then we do. Yes HST will cost more, thank you genius - I assume you used your grade 3 math skills to figure that out...

This is an economics lesson for all - HST is a modernized taxation. simple. In the short run, sure we will complain, hell I probably will too. In the long run, however, HST will completely shift the way we view taxes now - Businesses pay PST, therefore we pay PST to take the weight of the businesses, if we didnt we would pay higher prices. NOW under HST businesses do not pay similar to the way they do now and therefore prices will not have to be as high and sure it may take time for the prices to come down and we may even see HST reduced to a lesser %. my point - initially it will be more of a pain then antyhing else, however prices will only be rising by approx 0.7% so we wont even notice in some cases and in the Long run we will all come to our senses and see that this tax is not a left-right issues rather a policy shift.

Bill - No this is just the simplest rhetoric I could come up with. Truth be told we can debate for days, months years if we want. I will not stop however, and nor will you - fine we can agree to disagree?
I see your political ideals as rather confusing however, You ran the NO-STV, youve been a lead on NO-HST, had STV passed, the NDP (your party) may be in a position to stop legislation in the legislature. rather, you set yourself up to be defeated. you, like the NDP, always say "no" and then walk away. well guess what BILL no isnt enough! give us an alternative to just NO, the BC Liberals may not be the best option, they may not have the best ideas, but they have IDEAS, you have rhetoric. Give us something, gives us some plans. whats your STV alternative? whats your HST alternative? come on Bill get with it or get out.

You do Lie - you are just like the rest of them and yes I will say it, I was pissed when the budget came out and it was 'hidden deficit' etc...but you promote yourself through your blog etc...and it is only filled with NO-STV, NO-HST and No liberal slander, give us real information.
At the end of the day yesterday I attended a University meeting and showed the group your blog, the topic was professionalism, everyone on here has been simply giving rhetoric to your rhetoric's then you respond with things like 'you're full of BS' amongst other un-professional comments, needless to say my group of nearly 300 people was extremely concerned with your lack or professionalism and I will not stop here. this will not go away. you will, I promise.

Kyle Harms said...

I quote myself -
"well guess what BILL no isnt enough! give us an alternative to just NO, the BC Liberals may not be the best option, they may not have the best ideas, but they have IDEAS, you have rhetoric. Give us something, gives us some plans. whats your STV alternative? whats your HST alternative? come on Bill get with it or get out."

That is not me just saying 'yea wahoo just say yes to everything the Liberals want' I am saying, GIVE US AN ALTERNATIVE all Bill does is exactly what the NDP do, say NO.

BCYL - Hitler Youth...that might be the most creative thing I have ever heard, to bad you cant even come forward with your real name, rather you just Anonymously bash other people. I have a website for you, its a help line for psycho people like you - and Bill.

D Wayne said...

Pointless as it may be, I will get back to you Bill. I don't have the statements at hand but rest assured they are out there, I seem to recall some whoppers on your blog that got enough people riled up so venomously that you decided not to print those that called you a liar or a few other names which I can't recall at the moment. Then there were the 24 hrs ads, not all lies, the focus was on misleading mostly. Do you still have a copy I could quote from ? Bottom line though is you stand behind your words, no-one will ever convince you that you are wrong and I stand behind my accusations, no-one will convince me that you were completely honest.

Bill Tieleman said...

I apologize to readers and Kyle for the posting that used the term "Hitler youth" - it was inadvertently posted and I have removed it.

I warn all posters - references to Hitler, Nazis and similar ridiculous and offensive language is not welcome here.

As to Kyle's other points - we have a highly developed PST system that is only opposed by big businesses which want tax breaks - what a surprise! And our next door neighbour Alberta has no sales tax - and we've somehow survived without HST for all this time since the GST was introduced.

On STV - our NO STV coalition included people who support Mixed Member Proportional, Proportional List and other PR forms much more sensible than STV, as well as those who support First Past The Post like myself. Our goals wasn't, therefore, to propose an alternative - particularly one that wasn't on the ballot - it was to defeat STV.

I actually might share some of your criticism about the lack of ideas coming from the BC NDP - I think they need a populist and alternative platform well in advance of the next election.

Bill Tieleman said...

Oh D Wayne - I'm so sorry it's "pointless" to get back to me after I challenged you to tell everyone what alleged "lies" I told about STV.

What's really pointless is that you can't quickly articulate an argument but you can call me a liar at the drop of a hat!

But take your time getting back to me - because literally nothing turns on it.

Anonymous said...

Bill sorry for that posting,But that KYLE IS A MENTAL midget,are lies better than a no,I think not but that fool is suggesting we accept a lie and to hell with it because he say's a no is not good enough and it isn't!!!!!!!!!!!!But it's a whole lot better than all the lies and crap that's being spread by the Libs and for that reason I'll be voting NDP next time although holding my nose period!!!!!

Grant G said...

Bill T....It`s garbage day again for the Campbell (GANG)

Today the Government released the "Transitional rules for the HST"
I think you better visit their web site...
I just left there and the surprises keep coming.

Did you know that car and truck leases will have the HST?

Year long or lifetime memberships will have HST applied even if you buy them in January of 2010...6 months before the HST comes into effect

Same with flights, hockey games,you can buy these things months ahead of the HST start date of july1/2010 and if the game/concert/flight takes place after 2010 the HST will apply.

There is something in there which puzzles me..if a corporation sells to a buyer a....

"if a corporation sells a small shopping mall in january 2010 but the buyer doesn`t take possession of the mall until august 2010 the HST will apply"

Bill T, does that mean the HST applies to the sale of commercial real estate or buildings?

Do you think the people in the leasing business are aware that the HST WILL apply to car and truck leases?
here is the link.


Click to Transitional rules once you arrive there.

This was just released today, a tiny little blurb in the Victoria times colonist

Cheers-Eyes Wide Open

Angela said...

Let's not be too hasty D Wayne. I think a lot of Bill's perception about how BC-STV would have worked revolved around not being able, with his Political Science degree, to understand a "complicated" system that is clear to 10 yr olds. I'm sure he just meant it was complicated for himself, probably just got some facts confused and didn't intentionally mislead people. Look forward to your promised attack, should be fun.

But let's get back to the topic at hand, HST. Great stuff from Grant G. But I guess Campbell or Hansen gets the credit for these nutty ideas.

Here's a silly question:
if I go into a restaurant at 11:00 the night before and order food but it's not cooked, served, consumed and paid for before midnight will I have to pay HST on the bill ?

Told you it was a silly question. Point is Grant is right, how can they justify taxing something 6 months before the tax exists ? Are they on crack ? I guess power really is a drug.

Anonymous said...

Kyle where did you go?I guess common sense got a hold of you're sorry ass hey.Because you deep down inside that what you've been told is a lie and you need millions to be on gordo's side,and, that's NO LIE!!!!