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| Occupy Vancouver Day One |
Occupy Vancouver Turning off Its Power Source
Impossible demands, conspiracy theories alienating broad range of supporters.
Tuesday November 8, 2011
By Bill Tieleman
"The revolution will not be televised."
Occupy Vancouver was supposed to be talking about a revolution -- against big business greed and obscene income inequality.
Inspired to show solidarity with the original Occupy Wall Street movement, it was a righteous reaction against Canada's own problems -- like the fact that just 3.8 per cent of Canadian families control 67 per cent of household wealth.
Or that Canada's top one per cent grabbed 33 per cent of all income gains between 1997 and 2007.
British Columbia has its own powerful reasons for protest. This province has had the worst child poverty rate for seven straight years. And the forced eviction of adults with developmental disabilities from their homes by the government's Community Living B.C. is appalling.
Add in the meltdown of global financial markets yet again, with the job loss and suffering that creates, and you have a recipe for an energetic populist movement that could change the world for the better.
Instead Occupy Vancouver has turned into a sad parody of a revolution -- with absurd demands and no recognition that a squat on city property does diddly-squat to build support for the real change that would curb corporate control.
But it could help Vancouver's right-wing Non-Partisan Association regain control of the city in the Nov. 19 municipal election by defeating Mayor Gregor Robertson and his Vision Vancouver andCoalition of Progressive Electors team.
That would be a brilliant "revolution" indeed -- to elect a council full of people who oppose everything Occupy Wall Street has raised.
And to defeat a progressive majority who are trying to end street homelessness, make Vancouver the greenest city in the world and an arts and culture capital.
Safety issue is real
Saturday's tragic apparent drug overdose death of Ashlie Gough, a 23-year-old woman from Victoria, was an overwhelmingly clear signal that Occupy Vancouver is unsafe and needs to end as soon as possible in a peaceful manner.
But no. Supporters on Twitter actually asked if Vancouver would shut down a hotel if an overdose occurred and announced they don't recognize the authority of police, fire or City staff on "their land" at the Vancouver Art Gallery.
An online petition promoted by Toronto activist and Rabble.ca founder Judy Rebick calls on the city to "Stop bowing to political pressure to remove the camp and acknowledge that a political protest is protected under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms."
"Recognize that encampments are integral to Occupy Vancouver and the movement as a whole," the petition signed by less than 2,000 says. "Talk of splitting the two is a disingenuous way to split the issue. The protest is the encampment is the movement."
No, it's not the movement. The movement is not and should not be about the encampment. It is about a set of ideals.
When the medium of protest became the message, it was lost. The right to squat on any public property is not the same as demanding a financial transactions tax of one per cent to fund social programs -- the Tobin Tax.
Demands and conspiracy theories
However the online petition goes the other way -- even suggesting conspiracy theories about Vancouver manipulating safety issues. Another of the demands asks Vancouver to:
"Acknowledge that the City is playing politics with health and safety and the Vancouver Fire Department is being used to pursue the political goal of removing the camp before the election."
Forget that propane burners have been found in several tents. Forget that the city has even supplied power to the camp to provide heat and discourage use of dangerous fuels -- it's a conspiracy!
But what to expect when the partial rough draft list of 59 demands posted on the Occupy Vancouver website include:
-We demand an independent investigation into 9-11 which will examine all evidence including that which would support a false-flag explanation.
-We demand that prostitution be legalized and regulated as it is in New Zealand.
-We demand -- as Bertrand Russell suggested -- there be two police forces -- one to prove your guilt and another to prove your innocence. We demand lawyers be required to work in pairs so that a lack of resources won't be a factor in deciding a case. (Alternative: We demand increased funding for legal aid.)
-We demand the repeal of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. All synthetic drugs and hard drugs (including cocaine and heroin) must be distributed by prescription through a pharmacist.
-We demand that all harmless people be protected in the constitution. If a new law is written and a new set of people are to be criminalized, the burden of proof will now be on the government to provide evidence that this new group of criminals is inherently harmful to others. This will end scapegoating.
-We demand the release of all non-violent prisoners.
To be fair, there are lots of demands that many would heartily support -- even if some are highly unlikely to be achieved.
For example, the list also includes:
-We demand that the wealthiest one per cent pay their fair share by the closing of tax loopholes such as dark pools of liquidity and employer-side payroll taxes. Progressive taxation principles must prevail, income from capital must be taxed at the same level as wage income.
-We demand that the federal government keep out of private-sector union negotiations.
-We demand the prohibition of self-regulation by large-scale industries.
-We demand that a "ministry of whistle-blowing" be created with the power to protect any whistle blower –- corporate or otherwise -- from harm of any kind. We need to be able to safely call attention to injustice. Previous failed attempts to do this should be learned from.
But mixing conspiracy theories and fringe positions with populist politics isn't going to appeal to the 99 per cent of ordinary people who are supposed to be backing the Occupy movement against the privileged 1 per cent who run the economy.
People sleeping in tents in the cold and rain with obvious hard-drug use going on is not going to mobilize working people who have suffered three decades of wage stagnation while the super rich get even wealthier.
As Gil Scott-Heron -- a long-term debilitated drug addict himself -- put it:
You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out.
You will not be able to lose yourself on skag [slang for heroin] and skip,
Skip out for beer during commercials,
Because the revolution will not be televised.
Unfortunately, Occupy Vancouver will be televised, but it will not be the revolution it once promised.
.
37 comments:
I think you've written a cynical piece here Bill. You're adopting/endorsing the CKNW broad brush dismissals of Occupy Vancouver. These kids did not promise the "perfect" protest. Their message, importantly, is that they reject the Boomer interpretations of who they are and how they ought to comport themselves. They don't recognize the entrenched seats of power. And suddenly we're all so terribly concerned about fire safety and I.V. drug use on this precious piece of public property. I quite Bob Dylan, Bill, "I don't believe you, you're a liar!"
We demand an independent investigation into 9-11 which will examine all evidence including that which would support a false-flag explanation.
> 9/11 has already been scientifically proven that the planes hit the WTC, WTC-7 collapsed because of structural failure.
-We demand that prostitution be legalized and regulated as it is in New Zealand.
> Try escort services. Also Craigslist.
-We demand -- as Bertrand Russell suggested -- there be two police forces -- one to prove your guilt and another to prove your innocence.
> So who pays?
We demand lawyers be required to work in pairs so that a lack of resources won't be a factor in deciding a case. (Alternative: We demand increased funding for legal aid.)
> Why not just stay out of trouble and behave like the rest of us do?
-We demand the repeal of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. All synthetic drugs and hard drugs (including cocaine and heroin) must be distributed by prescription through a pharmacist.
> Operated by ganstas no doubt.
-We demand that all harmless people be protected in the constitution. If a new law is written and a new set of people are to be criminalized, the burden of proof will now be on the government to provide evidence that this new group of criminals is inherently harmful to others. This will end scapegoating.
-We demand the release of all non-violent prisoners.
> So you guys can take care of them? Heck you guys can't even control yourselves.
Demands on the other side may include:
- Obtain a source of constant income.
- Clean up your own mess.
- Pay out the costs of extra policing and attendance by the fire department to your camp.
- Provide your tents for the homeless and set up a camp at Oppenheimer Park or Crab Park.
- Be respectful of others who do not share your opinions.
Those demands have been repeatedly disavowed by Occupy Vancouver.
The truth is uncomfortable, embarrassing, implicating. If Ashlie Gough died anywhere else in the lower mainland no one would have ever heard her name in the media. She is a product of slashing social services, and further marginalizing the poor and the ill.
There are many more issues at stake for youth than those faced by a 40's to 60's generation. It may be hard to imagine (but try) but the world has dramatically changed in terms of opportunity, debt, cost of living, civil rights, health,...
There is no single message because there is a multitude of cultural dysfunction. What we are seeing worldwide is simply a natural reaction (rather than an organized singular point driven protest).
These kids did not promise the "perfect" protest. Their message, importantly, is that they reject the Boomer interpretations of who they are and how they ought to comport themselves. They don't recognize the entrenched seats of power.
Sure, but they want everything given to them, the hydro they are using are supplied by a government run facility.
These yahoos don't even know how to protest right to get their points across the the majority that might listen to them.
Perfect protest? This was not much more than an excuse for urban camping.
"The truth is uncomfortable, embarrassing, implicating. If Ashlie Gough died anywhere else in the lower mainland no one would have ever heard her name in the media. She is a product of slashing social services, and further marginalizing the poor and the ill."
She was also a product of those of Occupy that did not see the dangers inherent in drug abuse and made absolutely no effort to help her get off that junk. No effort at all.
"There are many more issues at stake for youth than those faced by a 40's to 60's generation. It may be hard to imagine (but try) but the world has dramatically changed in terms of opportunity, debt, cost of living, civil rights, health,..."
Not much different than the 1960's, but now this so called youth gets the word out by iPhone, iPad Social Media, all of which is Big Company. ("The Establishment" as it was called by hippies).
As for civil rights, where is that the rights of protest override the rights of others in using a public place? Vancouver needs a Hyde Park where someone can stand on a box and yell their head off to anyone that stops and pays attention before covering their ears and walking away.
There is no single message because there is a multitude of cultural dysfunction. What we are seeing worldwide is simply a natural reaction (rather than an organized singular point driven protest).
Sure natural reaction. Junk all over the place, the grass is all torn up, poaching free water and hydro, and not paying for anything.
Plus just how many of these protestors actually work 40 hours a week?
Any ‘protest’, any ‘change’ or ‘revolution’ not founded on the list below – at the very least the list below – has got no chance of changing anything. These very pillars of the system must fall or they will block any transformation of the human condition. The system does not need to be tinkered with or even fundamentally changed (on the surface). The whole bloody lot must go … starting with …
1. An end to creating money out of thin air on computer screens and charging interest on it (fractional reserve lending).
2. An end to governments borrowing fresh-air money called ‘credit’ from private banks and the people paying interest on this ‘money’ that has never, does not and will never exist. Governments (and that concept must change radically) can create their own currency – interest free.
3. An end to private banks issuing non-existent money called ‘credit’ at all and thus creating ‘money’ as a debt from the very start.
4. An end to casinos like Wall Street and the City of London betting mercilessly on the financial and commodity markets with the lives of billions around the world.
5. An end to all professional lobby groups that earn their living and their clients’ living from corrupting the professionally corruptible – vast numbers of world politicians and the overwhelming majority on Capitol Hill.
6. An end to no-contract government in which mendacious politicians can promise the people they will do this and that to win their support and then do the very opposite after they have lied themselves into office (see Obama).
7. An end to the centralisation of power in all areas of our lives and a start to diversifying power to communities to decide their own lives and thus ensure there are too many points of decision making for any cabal to centrally control.
That is just for starters. There is so much more where that came from. What good will come from rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic? NONE.
The banking system as we know it does not need to be ‘changed’ - it needs to be gone. It is a criminal activity based on fraud, extortion and, through its effect, on worldwide mass murder.
Its replacement needs to be decided by the population - not the very people who created it in the first place and are covertly manipulating a new global structure of financial control based on a world central bank.
Ain't that right, Mr Rothschild, Mr Rockefeller, Mr Soros?
~David Icke
Normally I support your comments 100%, Bill, but I believe you are totally wrong on this one. Massive amounts of money has been spent and much arm twisting has taken place behind closed doors to discredit any protest against the 1%. We have gone from broad public support for the protester's goals to, presumably, if you can believe most comments on news stories are not PAB plants, a complete reversal in only a few weeks. Suddenly the poor are the bad guys and the bankers are the good guys....I just don't believe this is any more than manipulation.
Are the Bankers regulated yet? No. Are the rich paying their fair share of taxes? No. Have politicians agreed not to take massive piles of cash for "services rendered"? No.
The only thing that has changed is that the big banks have cancelled their move to add a 5 dollar a month debit card charge to everyone's account. That change was 100% due to the protests around the world and the drive to ask people to move their money to credit unions. Its funny how there have been virtually no news stories about that being related to OWS, don't you think?
The bankers and corporatists want the OWS movement to go away. They question the lack of leaders because they can't point a finger at one or two people to discredit them. They question the goals because they can't pick one or two and give the protesters a tiny concession then end it. The politicians don't want it to keep going because they are pointing out the cozy relationship between the corporations and the members of government.
Bill, you must remember the Solidarity movement in BC and how they finally put Jack Munro into a leading position so a compromise could be made to end the demonstrations. Thats exactly what they want this time, but the OWS movement is too large and varied. There is no one person to blackmail or bribe that can stop it.
I, for one, fully support the protesters and have walked the walk with them even though I am retired. If we are to have any hope of reforming the corruption in our society it is with them.
They may shut down a tent city here and there and they can smear the ideas and the people in the press but they can't stop our thoughts, our goals, our desires, or our resolve to never be slaves again.
My first job, when I was in high school, was in a mill on the Fraser River. When I started it was pointed out to me that the lunch room I was to use was the one "over there" for the white guys. There was a separate one for Chinese workers. I'll be damned if I will sit still and see that return.
Corporations and those owned by them will stop at nothing in their goal to remove every last protection people have. They will take our schools and hospitals. They will pollute our water and our air. If some don't have the guts to stand up to them then all I ask is that you don't help them and that you get out of the way of those who will fight.
Did you check out Ashlie Gough's facebook page? She has been riding the rails through the land since at least May of 2009. She might have died anonymously in an unmarked grave. Using her death to prove anything political is an error in judgement, in fact I would say it is unethical. What kind of protest is it that changed civil rights or got the U.S. out of Vietnam. I think your commentary borders on ludicrous here Bill.
galluYah, well I;m sure Mr. Barkley has good intentions, but he too is a bit hypocritical as he does in fact support Big Business and Big Corporations.
He only has to go to his bank (or even Credit Union as Interact is owned by the Big Banks) as is Visa and MasterCard (the credit unions are just buy ins).
Then there is his motor vehicle. If he does not have one now, he had one previously.
He also forgets that Big Corporations do in fact create jobs. Including the one he had in high school at that mill.
The Occupests do not represent 99% of the people. Far from it.
THey and Mr. Barkley are living in a left wing "let's get 'em" mentality that the NDP and unions in the 1970's and 1980's had.
Things have changed.
Get with it, and get the Occupests out NOW!
Any legitimate political discourse evaporated many days ago and now Occupy Vancouver is nothing more than an indictment of BC's keystone cops justice system and the BC government's decade long failure to address mental health issues.
These individuals (self-declared revolutionaries ??!!) are perversely and unwittingly acting as agent provocateurs for the Right Wing in BC and its propaganda network, the very same people they supposedly wanting to overthrow.
Having personally seen and been inside their current operations in Victoria, Vancouver and Surrey over the last few weeks, I can tell you there is a hidden leadership that are commuting from one venue to another via bus, car and BC ferry.
In fact I recognized a few of the old-timers from events going back as far as the mid-1990s on Vancouver Island, Seattle and Vancouver.
This hard-core has been fighting and financially exploiting private charities and all three levels of government across a spectrum of issues for decades.
Ultimately we are dealing with about 20 hardcore social-criminals who have for years used political debate, the media and public sympathy on a variety of hot-button-issues to cover their fraudulent and largely state-funded no-regrets lifestyles.
These phony "freedom fighters" in some cases with decades of experience at . . . playing the game, are very hardened and cynical and know how to exploit the socially concerned public (especially their on-site supporters) and the photo-op hungry media.
The danger now for what constitutes The Rule of Law in BC is how to dismantle the Art Galley Hostage Zone, and at the same time limit the violent elements who will likely vandalize and pillage the downtown area within minutes of the police arriving to shut things down.
These elements will also pose a danger to any Remembrance Day activities happening this Friday.
Too many people are getting played here, and this welfare mafia needs to be contained, and the question now is . . . can and will City Hall and the VPD meet the challenge.
The GREAT SATAN
Harper gives billions of our tax dollars to, banks, mines, huge corporations and gas and oil corporations. He also gives them huge tax reductions. I saw that motion pass on the House of Commons TV channel. Harper was also in on the BC HST scam, with Campbell. Why is Harper thieving our tax dollars, to give to the wealthiest corporations in the world?
Australia media wrote some time back, how badly Harper is eroding democracy in Canada. Harper is also taking our, Civil Rights and Liberties away from us.
Did not big business dish out to Campbell, to fight to keep the HST?
What about, Campbell's theft and corrupt sale of our BCR trial? The judicial system in BC, is rotten to the core. Have we not seen, our tax dollars thieved in BC, as well as by Harper? We pay the legal fees, to the two patsies that took the fall for Campbell's theft of the BCR. Basi/Virk said, if they kept their mouths shut, they would be taken care of. What about the millions in a payout, to the Uranium mining company?
A drug O.D.can and does happen everywhere.
Do we not see, the outrageous salary's, the gold plated pensions, the huge severance payouts? The crap going on with BC's ferries and Hahn's million per year salary, is obscene.
Community Living being given, incentive bonuses to cheat the people who really are in need? We pay through the nose for those services. And, the s.o.b's steal our money for themselves? What about the corruption in Elections BC, police, and judges?
What about scum like Campbell being awarded the OBC? What about the same scum, being appointed to, the High Commissioner to England?
The sad parody of tents can stay there for an entire year, or a permanent fixture, I don't give a damn. Don't pull a Campbell/Clark BC Liberal dirty tactic, and shift the blame onto the people. They tried to shift the blame onto us for, having to pay back the HST to Harper. The BC citizens made no deal with the devil Harper, Campbell and Hansen did, the people clearly said no, to the HST. Now we are supposed to pay Harper back, for ripping us off. Just as the BC tax payers had to pay Campbell for stealing the BCR from us.
The government of Canada and the provincial governments, damn well know exactly why the tents are there. That was made abundantly clear to them.
Successful social movements adapt to changing circumstances with new tactics. At this time, in this city, the symbolic occupation of downtown Vancouver has failed. Better to have failed than not tried, is what I say.
The tents and their occupants became easy targets for the 1% and those of us in the 99% uneasy with the new, or perhaps just reinforced, knowledge our masters are good at being greedy and not so good at much else. I tally one critically injured target and one dead. If the Occupation, again, in this city, were getting somewhere I might be able to live with that tally but it is not so I cannot.
Bill, you are entitled to our own opinion. It is easier to criticize when you don't know the hard facts. Have you really been at the Occupy Vancouver site at VAG? If not, please come and see for yourself before you make any judgments what so ever.
The occupy started out protesting the very rich but sadly, just like here in Victoria ended up a flop stop for the druggies, and those who have no desire to make things better. The point that a few own all the riches have been made, so it's time to pack up. The Mayor in Victoria for example ,has told the protesters, they have every right to gather to protest but go somewhere else to sleep. Injunctions will have some, leave quietly, but like the guy with his bicycle up the tree, will have to be moved. Thinking people, know that the game is over, when the injunction gets read to each individual. Only a fool would insist she or he can and will stay in position. Go to your homes, or tent somewhere else, and if really serious about a cause, any cause by all means protest in a peaceful manner.Voting is a start. Biting the fingers of some city staff person trying to give a written notice is just plain stupid.( It happened in Victoria to bylaw officers)Support fades when people do such dumb things. Telling us that the area belongs to the protesters and no law outside their own, is in effect in that space. Give your heads a shake folks before getting dragged away and into a delayed court appearance.
Tieleman is like the Esa Tikkanen of progressive political punditry. When he's on the opposing team (opposing side of your opinion on an issue), your blood boils and you want to drill the fucker into the boards, or worse. But when he's on your team (defending your opinion on an issue), he's celebrated as a great agitator and you'll defend him to the death.
He has a way of getting under your skin and knowing what buttons to push, and uses this method of agitation better than just about anyone. Sometimes I'm not sure what species of agitator Tieleman actually is -- Free thinker or grandstanding sophist? I guess part of the beauty in his approach is he keeps me guessing. Or part of the beauty may be that he is able to skillfully be both free thinker and grandstanding sophist at the same time.
Regarding Occupy Vancouver, I think Tieleman speaks an uncomfortable truth progressives don't want to hear. The truth is that OV has devolved into squat that has misfits, not revolutionaries, fighting the city for the right to camp downtown. In Victoria, we have one tree occupier throwing urine on a city worker. Is this all truly reflective of the OWS manifesto? Really?
There are so many ways to express revolutionary ideals, or anger with the system, but tossing urine on city workers, camping downtown for the sake of camping downtown, and overdosing in your tent are not among those ways.
Dear Mr. Tieleman,
I am writing in response to your editorial this morning, Occupy Vancouver a sad parody of revolution. This was a succinct and well written article highlighting the unfortunate reality that should the protest influence the outcome of the current election to the political right, OV and future progressive movements will lose any chance of municipal support.
Having been at the October 15th rally, and deeply concerned about global inequities (last year I was in poor western Kenya doing humanitarian work), your statement 'when the medium of protest became the message it was lost' resonated with me. It was all the more ironic that on a following page of 24 Hours, there was an article "Millions more Americans slip below poverty line". I hope the focus can return to the huge global issues that require strong public support to affect change.
Best regards,
David
PS: Here is an article which you may appreciate. I think it is a rather amusing but salient perspective on movements. Self-interested fringe elements (or people just wanting to cause trouble) in progressive movements have often driven me away.
http://radioornot.com/site/?p=5181
You have described the demands as a draft.
If they haven't been approved by the group, they're just a brainstormed list.
I don't understand why you don't wait to evaluate demands once they are actually approved?
I don't understand why you don't wait to evaluate demands once they are actually approved?
Approved by whom? The Occupy People don't have a means of governance, and all that "general assembly" is, is just a bunch of people wiggling their upheld hands.
There's no formal means of approval from the group, and the Occupy group can't even maintain an encampment properly.
End Occupy Vancouver NOW!
"What do we want!??"
"End of Occupy Vancouver !!"
"When do we want it !???"
"NOW!!"
"As for civil rights, where is that the rights of protest override the rights of others in using a public place?"
In democracies - your thinking feudal systems.
In democracies - your thinking feudal systems.
The Occupy People have no more rights of use of public places than the rest of us.
Occupy out of the Art Gallery Lands, NOW!
Bill, you are entitled to our own opinion. It is easier to criticize when you don't know the hard facts. Have you really been at the Occupy Vancouver site at VAG? If not, please come and see for yourself before you make any judgments what so ever.
I have, the place is a mess and has junk all over the place.
That "Spiritual Fire" in a burn barrel is a joke. It wasn't there at the beginning and it's just an excuse to have a fire to keep warm.
I wonder about that food if it is being prepared in safe conditions, and where the basics for it are coming from.
Can easily come from the nearby grocery store dumpsters.
I'm saddened by the cynicism here. I can only speak for myself as an individual, but I don't think good work happens quickly, so if things coming out of occupy have seemed messy, I think it is because of how much there is to organize and do (and how many more critics and spectators there seem to be compared to people stepping up to do the work).
My sense through my involvement at occupy Vancouver is that there is incredible appetite to move forward productively, but the need to react to developing issues on the ground, and in particular the constant and ever-shifting demands of the COV, has meant that efforts have had to be spit in many ways, and that has certainly posed challenges.
In the last few days, I have felt an incredible coming together at Occupy Vancouver; I see people engaging with each other and the processes developed, and real growth and direction emerging as a result. I hope you get a chance to see some of this too, and perhaps see the possibility for push back against negativity that some people might have been feeling last week and/or early this week.
This movement is not one city, it is global, and everywhere it blossoms, I think there is a need for the development of a collective voice before the global chorus can be joined. I believe we are getting there.
- Sasha Wiley-Shaw
Those people at Occupy Vancouver,God bless them, are stepping away from their individual comfort zone to witness to the need to ask us all to take a long hard look at the world's 99% terms of existence. These campers will know how long they can examine the system and try to hold to account, those in financial institutions,government positions and resource extraction corporations just how far they mean to continue to scoop off the cream of GNP.
Unfortunately I can't be with them. Yet, I am able to Occupy a voting booth to "exercise" my democratic right after I Occupied a seat last week at an all candidates meeting to catch a fleeting glance at what local candidates want to do to our community. At that point I realized that I need to Occupy a seat at the municipal meetings in 2012 from now on to see and hear how responsibly the decisions affecting my life in this community are formulated.
Oh, and yes, after reading the advise from the Wall St. Occupy movement...I have moved considerable funds from a mainstream bank over to Occupy my account at a Credit Union based here in the Lower Mainland that yearly contributes funds to many NGO's in our area.
I wish the campers at OCCUPY Vancouver well. They are totally the opposite to the crowd that flipped their lids after the hockey game and hey!!! it was only a hockey game,eh!
I wish I could take a pot of soup and some muffins down to those people in front of the Art Gallery.
Bill, they really do have their hearts embracing the future well being of people on this planet.
"Those people at Occupy Vancouver,God bless them, are stepping away from their individual comfort zone to witness to the need to ask us all to take a long hard look at the world's 99% terms of existence."
It's alot of BS. SInce when does the 9/11 Truther scam have anything to do with international economics?? It does not.
And wanting non violent prisoners freed is a real joke.
"These campers will know how long they can examine the system and try to hold to account, those in financial institutions,government positions and resource extraction corporations just how far they mean to continue to scoop off the cream of GNP."
The next time they use their credit cards or debit cards or go to Starbucks or McDonalds will tell you.
THey are hypocrits every one of them. The Spirit Fire is just a pile of wood in a steel drum.
The thing lost its credibility one week after it was established.
These protestors don't give a rat's ass about the welfare of the majority of hard working people, those who work the shop floor, those who manage the company and those who supply the parts for the guys on the shop floor.
My sense through my involvement at occupy Vancouver is that there is incredible appetite to move forward productively, but the need to react to developing issues on the ground, and in particular the constant and ever-shifting demands of the COV, has meant that efforts have had to be spit in many ways, and that has certainly posed challenges.
Yeah right. Why not put your sense of involvement to good use and actually clean up the junk around that place and while you're at it:
- Insist and demand that absolutely NO drugs or alcohol be allowed anywhere in that camp. THose using drups, drinking beer to be removed immediately.
- Ensure that the rights of others who do not share your views are respected.
- Realize you are on public property and you and Occupy DO NOT have any more rights of use to it than do others in Vancouver.
- Ensure that all trash is removed from the tentsm that the place is swept each day, and that there is adequate passage for fire crews.
- If you are asked to leave by means of a court order, do so peacefully and respectfully.
- Ensure that camp members actually help the homeless by helping out at the Union Gospel Mission, or set up a health approved field kitchen in Oppenheimer Park.
- Also vote.
The Occupy Movement certainly has its merits. Like any movement, there are growing pains, lessons to be learnt and definite policies to be developed. I will suggest that the next step is to end the camping situation and move protests to a day by day or weekend by weekend situation. Examples could be in front of a bank, gas station, government office. political office, media outlet or other sites. Rotating protests now and then a short camping display just to show the protest is not over. Hopefully, over time progress can be made.
"conspiracy theories alienating broad range of supporters"
Discounting an entire movement because not everyone in the movement is a saint is a guaranteed recipe for failure.
Get involved. Discredit conspiracy theories from within. Standing outside comfortably at the feet of the 1% is just lazy.
This is the cutting edge of social change. There is a deep seated unhappiness within the populous. This is the tip of the iceberg. I honour their efforts.
Ran into a on line petition in Victoria today that tells the occupy folks to roll up their tents . Nobody denies the right to protest but free tenting with facilities, in the courtyatd next to city hall, is a bit much.
It seems the woman who was shown as a seldom drug user, got into a mix of Heroin and cocaine. What was he doing in a protest camp if she was stoned out of her head, and eventually died in her tent? Nobody noticed.
The thoughtful comments by DPL summarize the feeling of many individuals that originally supported the Occupy Movement. The movement has received the publicize by the camp out. Now the point has being met , is it not time to move on. Continuing the camping situation is lowering their credibility.
This is the cutting edge of social change. There is a deep seated unhappiness within the populous. This is the tip of the iceberg. I honour their efforts.
Yep, way to go especially when the Occupiers ignore one woman in need of help, doesn't get it, and died.
Real nice thing to honour isn't?
The Occupy People are a real model to follow.
Got this as an email.. I think that she is right on !!
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Marybeth Hicks
Columnist
The Washington Times
Oct 20, 2011
Call it an occupational hazard, but I can’t look at the Occupy Wall Street protesters without thinking, “Who parented these people?”
As a culture columnist, I’ve commented on the social and political ramifications of the “movement” - now known as “OWS” - whose fairyland agenda can be summarized by one of their placards: “Everything for everybody.
Thanks to their pipe-dream platform, it’s clear there are people with serious designs on “transformational” change in America who are using the protesters like bedsprings in a brothel.
Yet it’s not my role as a commentator that prompts my parenting question, but rather the fact that I’m the mother of four teens and young adults. There are some crucial life lessons that the protesters’ moms clearly have not passed along.
Here, then, are five things the OWS protesters’ mothers should have taught their children but obviously didn’t, so I will:
• Life isn’t fair. The concept of justice - that everyone should be treated fairly - is a worthy and worthwhile moral imperative on which our nation was founded. But justice and economic equality are not the same. Or, as Mick Jagger said, “You can’t always get what you want.”
No matter how you try to “level the playing field,” some people have better luck, skills, talents or connections that land them in better places. Some seem to have all the advantages in life but squander them, others play the modest hand they’re dealt and make up the difference in hard work and perseverance, and some find jobs on Wall Street and eventually buy houses in the Hamptons. Is it fair? Stupid question.
• Nothing is “free.” Protesting with signs that seek “free” college degrees and “free” health care make you look like idiots, because colleges and hospitals don’t operate on rainbows and sunshine. There is no magic money machine to tap for your meandering educational careers and “slow paths” to adulthood, and the 53 percent of taxpaying Americans owe you neither a degree nor an annual physical.
While I’m pointing out this obvious fact, here are a few other things that are not free: overtime for police officers and municipal workers, trash hauling, repairs to fixtures and property, condoms, Band-Aids and the food that inexplicably appears on the tables in your makeshift protest kitchens. Real people with real dollars are underwriting your civic temper tantrum.
• Your word is your bond. When you demonstrate to eliminate student loan debt, you are advocating precisely the lack of integrity you decry in others. Loans are made based on solemn promises to repay them. No one forces you to borrow money; you are free to choose educational pursuits that don’t require loans, or to seek technical or vocational training that allows you to support yourself and your ongoing educational goals. Also, for the record, being a college student is not a state of victimization. It’s a privilege that billions of young people around the globe would die for - literally.
• A protest is not a party. On Saturday in New York, while making a mad dash from my cab to the door of my hotel to avoid you, I saw what isn’t evident in the newsreel footage of your demonstrations: Most of you are doing this only for attention and fun. Serious people in a sober pursuit of social and political change don’t dance jigs down Sixth Avenue like attendees of a Renaissance festival. You look foolish, you smell gross, you are clearly high and you don’t seem to realize that all around you are people who deem you irrelevant.
• There are reasons you haven’t found jobs. The truth? Your tattooed necks, gauged ears, facial piercings and dirty dreadlocks are off-putting. Nonconformity for the sake of nonconformity isn’t a virtue. Occupy reality: Only 4 percent of college graduates are out of work. If you are among that 4 percent, find a mirror and face the problem. It’s not them. It’s you.
"Yep, way to go especially when the Occupiers ignore one woman in need of help, doesn't get it, and died.
Real nice thing to honour isn't?
The Occupy People are a real model to follow."
What a sick mind that wrote that. Get help.
A Damning Look At What Austerity Is Doing To Unemployment In The UK:
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-a-damning-look-at-what-austerity-is-doing-to-uk-unemployment-2011-11
What a sick mind that wrote that. Get help.
Any group that doesn't take care of their own that is in obvious need of care and assistance and doesn't deliver is needing help.
the only thing i have to say, is this. the asshole who wrote that list of demands has been dismissed by the General Assembley of Occupy Vancouver, because we all thought his "demands" were ridiculous.
the news broadcasted this list as an official list to make us look bad.
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