Saturday, November 20, 2010

BC NDP Provincial Council votes against full leadership convention but caucus remains divided over Carole James

BC NDP caucus gets together for drinks tonight - Lucia Sofo photo


The BC NDP Provincial Council did exactly as expected today, voting against resolutions from dissenting riding associations who called for a full leadership convention in November 2011 instead of a scheduled review of leader Carole James.


Delegates voted 97 to 18 against the leadership convention resolution, whose passage would have forced James to compete for her existing job next November. Instead delegates to the next party convention will have a simple yes/no vote on whether she has their support.

But while James and her supporters claim this ends debate over her leadership, it simply does not.

First, 13 members of caucus are unhappy with her decision to personally expel Cariboo North MLA Bob Simpson without consulting them. That caused Norm Macdonald to quit as Caucus Chair last month and Katrine Conroy to quit as Caucus Whip on Friday.

Resolutions dealing with that issue were ruled out of order Saturday.

Second, the party's problems - as detailed here in recent days - can't be voted out of existence by Provincial Council. There is no magic wand available to whisk away troubling realities that led to this situation.

Carole James has a continually low personal approval rating with voters - Angus Reid Public Opinion puts it at 25% with the NDP at 47% while a new Mustel Group poll released Friday has James' approval dropping 9% to 33% with the NDP at the same 42% they obtained in the 2009 election.


And the Mustel polls shows the beleaguered BC Liberals gaining 4% with the announced resignation of Premier Gordon Campbell - whose own approval rating Mustel puts at 32%, just a point less than James despite his horrendous year of mishaps.


There has been a continual effort by James' supporters to claim any concern about her leadership is an "old guard" revolt or that it is "sexist" or that it is influenced by "BC Liberal" spin and that the past two election losses were due to the "party office" or the "campaign team" or whatever - anything but the actual leader of the NDP .


That, of course, is pure nonsense.


Those caucus members who are not wearing yellow cheerleading scarves or "Doer Dexter James" buttons handed out today in an offensive way of trying to intimidate frank discussion of party problems have one overwhelming concern - they don't want to lose the next election.

James ill-considered decision to describe those dissenting MLAs as "selfish" won't help solve the problem.


Their concerns are shared by many party members and NDP supporters - and unfortunate number of whom have let their memberships lapse and their donations dry up, creating a shrunken and financially debilitated organization.


No vote by 115 Provincial Council members can solve these problems.


Remember - no past Provincial Council or Executive did anything critical even when the Mike Harcourt, Glen Clark and Ujjal Dosanjh NDP governments were headed for the electoral cliff.


Today is no different. Honest differences and divergent views have to be fairly addressed or the party will remain divided.


Telling those with legitimate concerns to shut up and salute the flag has never worked anywhere - it definitely won't work with the BC NDP.

.


56 comments:

Solange said...

WELL SAID!!!!

Anonymous said...

Just admit it Bill. You want Carole's job, or, at the very least, a top spot in the next government's spin team, which you know will never happen while Carole's leader. Give it up already.

pip said...

AS a lifelong supporter and now lapsed NDP member no way I will vote NDP while CJ is leader. No way CJ. CJ drew a line in the sand and fired 20 per cent, if not more, of us former NDP supporters.

Delia said...

The debate is over. Carole won, and she's not going anywhere. The media is now making fun of the gang of 13 for being so evasive about their agenda. Go ahead: form your own party with Bob. See how that leaves the left in BC.

BC Blue said...

Liberals will all happily be wearing their James support yellow scarves today also.

pip said...

Delia....CJ left the left a long time ago. It's unfortunate but dem duh facts.

Anonymous said...

As frustrated and depressed as I am about the outcome of this Provincial Council vote, I have a few questions for fellow Anti-Jamesite people: Who could we put up against CJ had she lost today?

So, I now see all the Jamesites faction coming out online tonight and lambasting the Anti-Jamesites. My words to you folks: You have no conception of James' public image and leadership style. Your political consciousness is distorted by your political correctness.

Mark my words, and words of those to oppose the Jamesites: The NDP will be blown out of the water in the 2013 election. And it's your damned fault!

Anonymous said...

Bill, first it was the staff around Carole, then Carole herself, and now Provincial Council is stupider than you too?

Meanwhile, Nicholas Simons takes a physically threatening run at Mable Elmore in front of the media, Harry Lali makes offensive remarks he is forced to publicly retract and Leonard Krog rants like Glenn Beck and is forced to retract - these are the smart ones you're running with?

Anonymous said...

It reminds me of some NDP conventions from long, long ago. Real discussion gets lost in choreography, "floor management", manipulation of rules. I recall reading that Mike Harcourt had to step down because Provincial Council refused to do anything about the loan to the Democrat from NCHS (I can't recall the details) Anyways, the yellow scarfs were very lame. Who hired the North Korean image consultant? Next election slogan: Carole James, Dear Great Leader for BC!

I do think that the public feuding should end but I also think Carole James is a lousy leader and should step aside. It will be interesting to see what happens in any recall triggered by-elections. Liberals might also call a snap vote if they turf HST after Campbell steps aside, especially if NDP support continues to be dragged down by CJ's er.. leadership.

Note that is is certainly not just "diehard old guard lefties" who think Carole James is not a leader, but most of the BC electorate.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DPL said...

In my unimportant view, James has managed to hold on for the moment. When the MLA's in the caucus plus one she turfed out of the caucus are counted, there is a lot of long time MLA's in the crowd. Others may accept her style of doing things but might still stray from her style of running things. No matter what, there will be some transferring of critic positions. Jenny has been around for quite awhile, went into the room with the ex Whip, didn't wear the yellow scarf, so must be on the shuffle list.

Delia seems to figure they have no where to go but to form their own party and wants to know where that leaves the left. Lets not forget Ms.James has been trying to move the party to the other side away from the reason the party was formed. Yes there still are some talented folks in the crowd, but it's early days . IN the meantime with membership dropping and donations dropping, it might be more sensible to dump the MLA who seems to think she, and only she, can be the leader. if she is so convinced, why not a all member vote on the issue. It would bring in a lot of interest no matter which way the results ended up. a bit chicken maybe Carole and insiders?

Ludicrus said...

"Telling those with legitimate concerns to shut up and salute the flag has never worked anywhere - it definitely won't work with the BC NDP." - Hmm, seems to have worked pretty well for the Liberals.

I don't agree it SHOULD work that way but that's the kind of behavior that affords any party an opportunity to win an election under our failing system of choosing a leader. Instead of this infighting which you are a strong advocate for, that is so unhealthy for the NDP, why not advance the creation of a second left leaning party so that those who support Carole James can continue their efforts to get her elected while others can move in the direction they think the NDP should go under a new party and a leader chosen from the "gang of 13"?

It would work perfectly, everyone voting for their preference rather than the only option that isn't Liberal, secure in the knowledge that with more people voting for either of these acceptable choices than the despicable Liberal-to-be-named-in-February that at last we would have a government we could respect.

If only there was a way to vote where that could happen. A wise man said this would be a wild week in BC politics. He was right. I think if he put his mind to it, he could surely find a radical solution to this voting problem and shock us all even more, but I've forgotten who that was. Perhaps you recall this great man who could be our saviour.

Anonymous said...

Guess what folks? I'm one of those BC voters who doesn't like the Liberals, but who isn't too sure about the NDP.

For many years, I was an NDP member. Alas, I finally got fed up with all of the b.s., especially Gerry Scott and the old game called: "I'm more left-wing than you are."

Sorry, Bill, but as far as I can see, you and your friends just want to keep playing that silly game. Meanwhile, 9% Gordo and Kevin get to keep wrecking the province. Are you really doing us a favour?

Normally, I vote NDP but if the party can't get it's act together, I'll consider any pragmatic, moderately left of centre alternative. If that is too much, then I can always fulfill my duty as a citizen by marking my ballot as "None of the Above".

For me, a very real test of Carole James is how she responds to a continuing challenge from you and your playmates. It's clear that adult supervision is needed; and she can do that by suggesting to you and your playmates that it is time to settle down and work with the rest of the class (aka caucus) or be expelled from the school (i.e. find a new political party). To be frank, if you opt for another party, your past results suggest that there isn't too much to worry about.

Anonymous said...


Palmer
is reporting that Gentner and Austin have now declared support for Carole - Gentner even giving her a hug.

Better get to work shoring up the dissidents, Bill.

cherylb said...

Well it's all well and good that Provincial Council supports Carole. Now if they could only tell me how they plan to stem the negative comments about her that are constantly made by the voting public and how they intend to change people's minds and votes, I'd be happy. From where I sit though, it looks like the comments have gotten worse in the past 6 or 7 years; and especially the past year, not better. It would also be interesting to know how they intend to not only bring back the lapsed members; but to build the party to at least acceptable levels. I don't see it happening with Carole as leader. Sorry.

And I wish people would stop making it personal. This isn't about Carole. This is about winning an election and becoming government. I'm so tired of working my guts out, just to lose. That last campaign was pathetic. And in my humble opinion, if we keep going the way we are, we will lose again.

Anonymous said...

Carole is complicit in hiding the Moe Sihota "stipend" (give me a break - stipend my butt). Therefore, she has lost my trust and the trust of many, many others who were not at Council today. She has called members who have legitimate concerns "complainers". That is an indication of her disrespect for us. If she is so secure in her abilities as Leader, why is she afraid of a leadership race? Because she would lose and she knows it. I hope the Party that I love (in spite of all this) survives her stubborn refusal to believe that people just don't like her and won't vote NDP with her at the helm. It's not a question of whether I (or others) agree with that - it's a fact and it is going to give those lying Liberals another term. I will sign as anonymous as it seems to the be smart thing to do in this atmosphere - I don't want to be called names any more. I'm going to go and have a good cry now.

Judith said...

Moe Sihota is the REAL NDP Leader and Carole James is his puppet. Sihota demanded that his poodle James fire Simpson from caucus after he made a big scene of the $6,000 graft that he gets from Labour every month. Sihota set the agenda for the Council meeting today so there was zero time to talk about the Simpson matter or an early leadership convention. Sihota will be chief of staff if the NDP are elected in 2013 which will mean that he will be the puppet master, Moe always wanted to be Premier but because of his shady deals while in Cabinet he lost his chance.Moe is sleeping well tonight knowing that now he has a good chance of being the realpower behind the James throne. Sad Eh.

anthony said...

As a lifetime supporter of our left of centre parties, I will cast my ballot again for my representative. I will not however renew my party membership nor will I donate any of my unionized working $ to this party as long as the "New Dictator" Carole James is at the helm. It has been very clear for years that she does NOT have any leadership qualities that it would take to run our party. At this time she is driving a stake into the heart of our once proud people led party. The divisions that are now happening may be irreparable and I am deeply worried that because of her selfishness may cost us another loss at election time.

Delia said...

Well Anthony, you and the gang of 13 MLAs have succeeded in causing a public spat the party does not need and embarrassing yourselves in the process. Vaughn Palmer describes the gang of 13 and their few supporters as follows:

"They are...an amateurish and evasive lot, whose clumsy interactions with the news media Friday and Saturday left the impression that either they don't know what they are doing or aren't prepared to share their intentions with anyone other than their own cult-like supporters."

Carole James, in contrast, looked and sounded like a great leader.

Anonymous said...

I can’t believe some of the bashing that is being thrown at Tielemen. Some of you idiots need to take your heads out of the sands and realize it is BECAUSE Bill cares about the party he is trying to ensure that Carole James does not lose yet another election. Tielemen has a much better batting average on these things then any yellow scarf wearer, I will you that much. Listen and learn. Those yellow scarves were probably made in the BC Liberal headquarters….

Anonymous said...

reedin sIf Carole James can guarantee me an independent voice from any elected NDP MLA on all issues that arise, then count me in on voting NDP.
I just don't want to see a repeat of the last 9 years where the players are dancing around democracy and not delivering. The party system may be good for organizing and controlling but personally, I want my once every four year vote to mean more than that.

DPL said...

Delia must be on to something worth drinking or smoking. James is no leader and her actions are hurting the party of the so called left. We all thought it was great when one Liberal denounced Gordo yet figure when 11 or more MLA's don't back James, that all is well. I guess I maybe shouldn't mention drinking or smoking but something is upsetting at least one poster here thinking process, and its certainly not the majority of us.
James has lost twice, will lose again, and the conversation will then start all over again

Anonymous said...

Interesting . . .

BC's simpleton of socialism gets 84% support from the party this week.

BC's psycho-premier also got 84% support from his party (before his retirement).

Who is doing the "counting" for the NDP?
I am betting Moe Sihota!

Moe Sihota (BC's Jimmy Hoffa) should stick to strong arming the drivers and operators of taxi-cabs, buses, trucks and limos . . . and leave democracy to people who can spell it, let alone understand it.

The GREAT SATAN

terrence said...

I am incredulous about the extremist "CAN CAROL" wing-nuts posting here. I used to think the NDP was a group of radical, left-wing union goons, who put their narrow minded ideology above anything, and that the NDP would NEVER get elected, and that the wing-nuts would destroy the Party.

Way to go, wing-nuts, DESTROY THE NDP. The best thing that could happen to the NDP would be for all the anti-James ideologues to leave, to get out of the NDP, which will be much, MUCH, MUCH better off without you. PLEASE LEAVE THE NDP TODAY, or better YESTERDAY. Gordo LOVES you losers - maybe you are even Gordo supporters, trying to make the NDP look incompetent and stupid (which is EXACTLY what you are doing).

Anonymous said...

It is interesting to see what the different NDP MLA's. I have homes in two communities represented by NDP MLA's. Whether they personally support Carole or not, they have a responsibility to talk to their grassroots and represent their views. MLA#1, who may have leadership aspiration, told his constituents that he supports Carole James and that he hasn't heard anything negative about her at all from his constituents (which I don't believe is true because I talk to his constituents too so I know we're not hearing the same thing).
MLA#2 who does not have leadership aspirations (but probably should) represented what his constituents have been telling him - Carole's gotta go.
I think many of us really like Carole, just not as leader. Her voice and rhetoric filled speeches which don't sound sincere, start to grate after a while.
Still better than the Liberals!

Chris Budgell said...

If this turns out to be the beginning of the end for the BC NDP, so what? At a minimum, that makes room for another Opposition party. That's not the end of the world, but an opportunity for those with the will and integrity to seize it.

Meanwhile, the gong show will continue. It's going to get even sillier. In the Province today Michael Smyth noted that Geoff Meggs was in the room, sans scarf and button, but he neglected to mention that Meggs is also married to O'Brien.

I'm just wondering what qualified Councillor Meggs to be there. Was this function open to the public?

I would guess that there are a number of potentially fatal divisions in the party, but the obvious one is between the union crowd and those who would prefer a party that answers to the people. Carol is scheduled to address the BCFed convention in a week or so. The agenda is online at the BCFed web site. Have a look at the list of speakers. Jack Munro? Where've I heard that name before?

Anonymous said...

Deila and Terrence:

Please understand - many of those opposing Carole and her crew (which includes the vast majority of online posters expressing moderate views on democratic fundamentals) believe they represent WOLVES IN SHEEPs' clothing.

Let us look at Carole's roll in causing this most recent mess (which has been going on for years but not in public):

- Miss James fired Bob Simpson in a manner contrary to democratic procedures causing public uproar;

- Given the above, moderate new democrat Norm MacDonald steps down based on principle;

- the caucus whip (considered by many to have been a long-time James loyalist) works in accordance with her office duties regarding procedure to resolve issue and bring Mr. Simpson back into caucus. This effort is done with the privacy and confidentially of the whip's office to prevent ongoing public spat caused by Carole's improper (and unwise) firing:

- Female MLAs rally around whip in support. These include long time NDP fighter Jenny Kwan. While Whip is constrained by confidentiality, the support appears to respond to appalling article by Gary Mason propagating false notion that opposition to James is either sexist or composed of outsiders;

- I understand Carole and advisers for six weeks refuse to participate in good faith with Whip and Office leaving Whip in position that she feels obligated to resign:

- Carole and group then employ disgusting power-politic tactics to obscure facts of what happened and to demonize and blame other for her handling of the situation and lack of open and honest leadership.

I wish more people would understand how much of the opposition to Carole James and her crew is based on the belief that she is fundamentally dishonest with respect to political communications and democracy. In the past, she has opposed electoral reform and campaign finance reform initiatives that affect centralised approaches to power.

Terrence - you want all the dissenters to leave eh? Well, judging by the evidence, most have.

The reason why Carole James is such a problem for the NDP is that many believe she is not moderate or middle of the road at all. She is extraordinarily divisive. It appears she plays Harper-style politics with any opposition, and the truth.

Please review the comments on blogs or sites frequented by middle-of-road new democrats. The overwhelming majority are raising grave concerns about James for a reason.

HER BACKERS ARE BY AND LARGE THE OLD GUARD. With regards to Tieleman, my impression (without knowledge) is that he has been a long-time loyalist to the group behind Carole James; but has been a bit quicker in realizing that that project is doomed. Or at least that it should be...

'Follow the leader at all costs' politics is as dangerous as relying on articles by Vaughn Palmer or Gary Mason for evidence of what the NDP should do in a moment like this.

Anonymous said...

Deila and Terrence:

Please understand - many of those opposing Carole and her crew (which includes the vast majority of online posters expressing moderate views on democratic fundamentals) believe they represent WOLVES IN SHEEPs' clothing.

Let us look at Carole's roll in causing this most recent mess (which has been going on for years but not in public):

- Miss James fired Bob Simpson in a manner contrary to democratic procedures causing public uproar;

- Given the above, moderate new democrat Norm MacDonald steps down based on principle;

- the caucus whip (considered by many to have been a long-time James loyalist) works in accordance with her office duties regarding procedure to resolve issue and bring Mr. Simpson back into caucus. This effort is done with the privacy and confidentially of the whip's office to prevent ongoing public spat caused by Carole's improper (and unwise) firing:

- Female MLAs rally around whip in support. These include long time NDP fighter Jenny Kwan. While Whip is constrained by confidentiality, the support appears to respond to appalling article by Gary Mason propagating false notion that opposition to James is either sexist or composed of outsiders;

- I understand Carole and advisers for six weeks refuse to participate in good faith with Whip and Office leaving Whip in position that she feels obligated to resign:

- Carole and group then employ disgusting power-politic tactics to obscure facts of what happened and to demonize and blame other for her handling of the situation and lack of open and honest leadership.

I wish more people would understand how much of the opposition to Carole James and her crew is based on the belief that she is fundamentally dishonest with respect to political communications and democracy.

Terrence - you want all the dissenters to leave eh? Well, judging by the evidence, most have.

The reason why Carole James is such a problem for the NDP is that many believe she is not moderate or middle of the road at all. She is extraordinarily divisive. It appears she plays Harper-style politics with any opposition, and the truth.

Please review the comments on blogs or sites frequented by middle-of-road new democrats. The overwhelming majority are raising grave concerns about James for a reason.

HER BACKERS ARE BY AND LARGE THE OLD GUARD.

'Follow the leader at all costs' politics is as dangerous as relying on articles by Vaughn Palmer or Gary Mason for evidence of what the NDP should do in a moment like this.

DPL said...

A quick way to ensure the protest vote remains is to contribute nothing except ten bucks a year which gives member status, and if the lady ever gets enough pressure put on her for an all member vote, well heck your ten bucks is as good as Moe, Curly and whomever is working the back room. The MLA who changed his mind about who to support will have to answer to his constituency team who want a leadership review now. So put in the ten bucks and wait for the all member vote, it can't be far away. I'd pay ten bucks to get rid of her, heck it may take awhile so will budget for twenty

Paul said...

Premier Pinocchio and his disciples (including Vaughn Palmer) are happily wearing their yellow scarves today.

Anonymous said...

So sorry to hear you and your cohorts are intimidated by yellow scarves, Bill. What is your position on other accessories?

I hope you and your scarf-phobic friends can put your public fear and silly panic attacks over shifting polls and random attacks on Carole from people who will never vote NDP anyway (no matter what they may say to the contrary) long enough for us to form government, and make a real difference in this province.

One thing I've always admired about the Libs: until very recently, they always managed to keep a lid on their internal squabbles. No wonder the public saw them as the logical choice for a competent, capable government.

Bernard von Schulmann said...

No matter what the vote by the NDP council was, the public really does not like Carole James. Over and over again online polls have 80% saying she is capable of being premier.

No one has come out in any forum that I have seen to explain why they think Carole James is a good leader and will make a great premier.

Leaving aside the current leadership issue, the NDP is completely adrift without any anchor to what policy the party would enact when in government.

James needs to show she is capable of being premier. My fear is an utterly chaotic NDP government after 2013 - that serves no one well.

Anonymous said...

You sexist jerks just have a problem with a strong woman leading our party.

Notice how not one woman has posted her support of this chauvinist BS!!!

Anonymous said...

Why don't those thirteen or so dissident(ndp)get together,with the other,independent mla,with the one walkout,and,one kicked out,and,soon to be sidelined(Kash)that would make seventeen,way more than enough to have party status,and,more than enough to have a majority in the legislature,along with the ndp vote,maybe then we could force some answers on some questions that have yet to be answered for,on dozens of issues.

cherylb said...

@ Anonymous 7:58 - what chauvinistic bs would that be? The fact that many people don't support Carole? Guess you didn't read my post.

Anonymous said...

The council isn't a legitimate representation of the party?

A hundred bucks, if it went the other way Bill would have been crowing that the party had spoken.

And scarves? Who can believe the intimidation in that? It would have been nuclear if they had worn t-shirts.

But you have to give 'em props Bill, buttons and scarves are so innovative. Who would have thought a leader's supporters would wear them. No wonder Bill's side was outfoxed.

By the way, as I left council I saw some anti-hst, pro recall demonstrators outside the Legislature, intimidating passers-by with their buttons, t-shirts and signs. Intimidation, it spreads quickly.

lailayuile said...

In the grand scheme of things, it appears that most of the caucus,as well as James herself,seem to have forgotten how they bloody well got their positions in the first place. The votes represented here are but a drop in the bucket of what the electorate actually comprises.

Honestly,the entire party executive need to give their heads a shake,because what I am hearing is that the yellow scarves stupidity - and that is, what it is- did more to hurt Carol in the public eye, than help her. It starkly drew a line in the sand that was not initiated by " dissidents" described so ridiculously by Vaughn as amateurish.

I am sickened by all of this.At one time I envisioned myself running to serve my province, my neighbourhood which has always been Liberal but is DONE with them, under the NDP banner. Yes,it would mean contesting the current NDP candidate which would not be an issue, but I did think Carole was the woman to lead us to through the future.

We met, we talked, and for a while,my faith was restored that she,and others, saw where the last election was lost, because I saw that moment clearly.

However,I held back, because I firmly felt that going after business a la Moe Sihota, was a big mistake. I'm clearly not a political analyst, but even I could see the writing on the wall. Sihota is synonymous with nothing good in this province, in fact,quite the opposite.

It does not matter what happened in this vote, really, it doesn't.The people who head to the voting stations dont have trust in Carol any longer. Too nice, too easy, now going to business, which -PR wise- stinks of Liberal agenda to voters.

Carol would do well to return to the people that supported her last election, ditch Moe, and if they need to hire someone to get donations in, get someone without all the baggage, and someone who has appeal to the general public.

The public want someone who will do the right thing for them, not the right thing for themselves.

Anonymous said...

Come on, Bill. Scarves and buttons “offensive” and “intimidating”? As opposed to, say, one of the most common ways of showing enthusiasm and support for a leader. What dirty tricks will they try next?

What is offensive is this continued campaign of personal attack on Ms. James. Now you claim that the overwhelming vote in favour of her leadership at the provincial council was meaningless. I expect had 15 or 20 more votes gone the other way, your column would have been a resounding “the party has spoken – the leader must listen to this vote”.

We get it. You don’t like her. You don’t think she can win. You don’t care how much damage you cause in the process. I was naively hoping you would have had the decency to acknowledge that Ms. James stepped up and showed her stuff this weekend. And that you would have shown some respect for the views of the council members, who took their vote seriously.

Bill Tieleman said...

I'm letting everyone have their full say here - including taking a good run at me - that's fair.

I will say this - I'm not looking for a job of any sort - I would just like to see the NDP win the next election.

I will support whoever is the leader at that time - including Carole James, as I have in 2005 and 2009.

But the concerns of NDP members, caucus MLAS and voters have to be addressed and resolved. The provincial council vote does not do that.

I'll have more to say on both the NDP and BC Liberal Party leadership challenges in my column here, in 24 hours and in The Tyee online on Tuesday.

Anonymous said...

Bill sez: "I'm not looking for any sort of job ..."

In other news, the sky is purple.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:58PM...is that what this comes down to for you? Gender? I assume that you think affirmative action in government is a good thing? Get a woman in there whether she knows how to do the job or not? Vote for anyone who wears a bra?

The only true sexist comment I've read in this thread is your own. Sad.

Anonymous said...

"I would just like to see the NDP win the next election [and the surest way to do that is to kneecap the leader in sustained public attacks!]."

"But the concerns of NDP members, caucus MLAS and voters have to be addressed and resolved. The provincial council vote does not do that [because I don't think provincial council delegates, elected and instructed by NDP members at NDP constituency associations, are in any way a reflection of how constituencies or NDP members feel. Unless they agree with me, of course. Also, provincial council didn't overrule that mean, bullying lady (who is way too soft to lead) and re-instate Bob Simpson. Waaaaaah."


Bill Tieleman.

Anonymous said...

Carole did not win. Having Jenny Kwan standing in the back with a scowl on her face and crossed arms says alot about the political health of the NDP.

There is of course the vote coming at this weekend's NDP Convention.

Norm said...

Bill,

It is time for the NDP to refocus its guns on the Liberals. The time for circling the wagons and shooting in is over.

Anonymous said...

Bill (or anyone else who wants to take a shot at this): I've recently moved back to BC after 15 years in Ontario and haven't kept up on BC politics. The Carole James thing is strange to me: normally NDPers, and I am not one, are very good about solidarity.

It's also odd to see this level of dissent seven years into her gig, I would think that if there were problems they would have surfaced earlier or after winning 2 elections, as is usual in Canada.

So what exactly is the problem with James? Can't get that sort of info from Wikipedia or the media, and my circles are not very political. From what I can gather, it's not primarily an issue of personality, though there seems to be some criticism of autocratic tendencies.

There does seem to be some issue with her not having academic credentials or business experience, or rather that her previous career looking after disabled kids might not be the best preparation for being premier.

Being married to a (former?) RCMP officer would seem to be compromising at a time the RCMP and cops in general aren't at historic levels of popularity.

In my brief time here, her request that Simpson apologize before she lets him back in caucus seems school-marmy, not the type of thing political leaders typically do.

The biggest issue as far as I can tell is that she's just not very good at the job, and that people want to dump her as leader because they don't think she can win. Amirite?

My own view - and you'd better not 86 this comment for being un PC, dude, I'm being frank here - is that as a matter of well documented political science female Canadian political party leaders at the provincial and federal level don't do very well, to put it mildly.

Twenty five years ago you could have blamed the press, but that doesn't fly in 2010. For reasons of nature and nurture there's definitely a problem here.

One female political leader who was very successful does come to mind: Sarah Palin. Hold your fire, folks, her approval rating as Alaska governor prior to being selected VP candidate was an unheard of 80+ %, and she brought a dud ticket to within 2% of beating Obama. If people want female leaders to do well in Canada they should swallow hard and look at what Palin did and try to emulate it.

Anonymous said...

Bill (or anyone else who wants to take a shot at this): I've recently moved back to BC after 15 years in Ontario and haven't kept up on BC politics. The Carole James thing is strange to me: normally NDPers, and I am not one, are very good about solidarity.

It's also odd to see this level of dissent seven years into her gig, I would think that if there were problems they would have surfaced earlier or after winning 2 elections, as is usual in Canada.

So what exactly is the problem with James? Can't get that sort of info from Wikipedia or the media, and my circles are not very political. From what I can gather, it's not primarily an issue of personality, though there seems to be some criticism of autocratic tendencies.

There does seem to be some issue with her not having academic credentials or business experience, or rather that her previous career looking after disabled kids might not be the best preparation for being premier.

Being married to a (former?) RCMP officer would seem to be compromising at a time the RCMP and cops in general aren't at historic levels of popularity.

tbc...

Anonymous said...

cont....


In my brief time here, her request that Simpson apologize before she lets him back in caucus seems school-marmy, not the type of thing political leaders typically do.

The biggest issue as far as I can tell is that she's just not very good at the job, and that people want to dump her as leader because they don't think she can win. Amirite?

My own view - and you'd better not 86 this comment for being un PC, dude, I'm being frank here - is that as a matter of well documented political science female Canadian political party leaders at the provincial and federal level don't do very well, to put it mildly.

Twenty five years ago you could have blamed the press, but that doesn't fly in 2010. For reasons of nature and nurture there's definitely a problem here.

One female political leader who was very successful does come to mind: Sarah Palin. Hold your fire, folks, her approval rating as Alaska governor prior to being selected VP candidate was an unheard of 80+ %, and she brought a dud ticket to within 2% of beating Obama. If people want female leaders to do well in Canada they should swallow hard and look at what Palin did and try to emulate it.

Anonymous said...

"It is time for the NDP to refocus its guns on the Liberals. The time for circling the wagons and shooting in is over"

No sense in pointing the guns at the ducks in the sky when one of the hunters has already shot the bottom of the boat.

cherylb said...

A good leader attempts to heal division and work things out with unhappy members. They respond to expressed concerns. They don't ok the use of yellow scarves and buttons to differentiate between supporters and dissidents. That is a divisive tactic and I am ashamed this is happening in my party. I thought Carole was better than that.

Linda said...

Time for James to present a loyalty oath for all NDP MLAs to sign. If they can't do that, they must leave caucus. The calibre of the people opposing James is low--no star performers. I'd like to see how they'd do on their own.

Ludicrus said...

I agree Linda. I'd like to see how they do on their own also. I'm hoping the Liberals fragment even more but there is an order to all this.

First the left that most people want, break up into small useless factions. Then the ongoing ruling Liberals implode even more because they haven't got a clue how to govern decently.

They will continue to increase their wealth, making people more hostile until finally an all out civil war breaks out in their party (except of course being civil is the last thing on their mind) because the less fortunate among them decide they are entitled to the same level of greed as every other sadistic member of their elitist party.

There being no real opposition because the NDP and their offspring are fighting amongst themselves for the right to be ignored in Legislature, at last the Liberal fragmenting begins.

First one then another new right wing back bencher party springs up, having witnessed the success of the first until at last they are so weak that the clever little NDP children band together to hijack one of these now insignificant Liberal machines and bring peace to the province.

Unfortunately, the NDP have opposing opinions about which Liberal group to take over and they all end up choosing a different one, thus maintaining their status as the party that almost could.

I sure do love that BC politics.

Paul said...

MICHAEL SMYTH, THE PROVINCE NOVEMBER 21, 2010

But Simons, the two-term MLA from Powell River, didn't hide his disdain for James when I asked him why he wasn't wearing a yellow scarf.

"I'm not putting a noose around my own neck," he replied.

DPL said...

Loyalty oath to the leader, forget it. The MLA's work to get elected to represent the people who voted for them. If the head of the pack can't manage to keep them all pointing in the same direction the person to question is the one called The leader.Jenny stood in the house alongside Joy and looked at the massive number of Liberals. They didn't run, they admitted they were scared, but the two of them managed to hit the Liberals on many issues. Their trial by fire gained the respect of many people. Gordo did his best to make their life miserable but they stuck it out. One wonders if the"school marm" with a lot of other members beside her could do as well. Some of the critics do very good work and all try to do their best. To kick someone out of the caucus was rather short sighted. Simpson was very good as Forestry critic, so for something rather small the "school marm" lost a good person. Wonder how many others will simply decide there is no future with her. Time to wise up Ms.James and reconnect with all the NDP MLA's

Purple library guy said...

Someone asked who would be a good replacement. I think they were trying to be sarcastic, but it was worth asking.

Interestingly, to me the names that pop into my head are also women: Jenny Kwan, Dawn Black, Joy MacPhail if we could get her.
Who would other people suggest?

Paul said...

THE PROVINCE Editorial, NOVEMBER 23, 2010

"NDP leader Carole James's declaration of an end to infighting within her party rings as hollow as that of the former Iraqi information minister who famously declared on TV in 2003 there were no U.S. tanks in Baghdad -- when they could clearly be seen in the background."

Province Editorial

MICHAEL SMYTH, THE PROVINCE NOVEMBER 23, 2010

One thing's for sure: The Libs are delighted that NDP leader Carole James is sticking around, at least for now.

After beating her twice already, the Liberals hope she survives an NDP caucus revolt, and stays exactly where she is.


Michael Smith Column

Himself said...

If Carole James had anything like the support she claims she would happily have stepped down to renew her mandate. 8 years and 2 electoral losses scream for a re-affirmation.
The defend & deny crowd are wrong!
The scarves, buttons and name-calling have damaged the party almost as much as James has.
There is no way to patch the rift.
Loyal NDPers will either leave or gather at the next convention to throw out the James gang. If she and Moe and the rest orf the Inner circle don't leave,the election is lost. The weekend presented an opportunity to repair, renew and redirect the party. Instead, it became a manipulated and orchestrated monument to a diseased ego. Yes- someone is selfish here. Carole is not leaving so we will have to unceremoniously throw her out. It won't be pretty, but the party can't win with her as leader.