Tuesday, April 20, 2010

Finance Minister Colin Hansen is mad at Bill Vander Zalm and I - BC is furious with Hansen's HST!

Fight HST is growing and Hansen's not happy

BC Liberal Finance Minister Colin Hansen tries to push Bill Tieleman and Bill Vander Zalm out of the HST picture - good luck!

Bill Tieleman's
24 hours/The Tyee column

Tuesday April 20, 2010

By Bill Tieleman

"The Initiative challenge is clear -- can HST opponents get organized enough in every single riding to obtain the magic 10 per cent of legitimate voter signatures? I say we can!"

- Bill Tieleman in
The Tyee and 24 Hours, August 18, 2009

B.C. Liberal Finance Minister Colin Hansen is really mad at me.

But that's okay -- the rest of the province is furious with him for trying to impose the Harmonized Sales Tax on us!

Hansen went after me
in the Legislature and on CKNW AM 980 last week, saying that with the Fight HST campaign, former premier Bill Vander Zalm and I were "misleading" people about what goods and services the HST's extra 7 per cent will apply to.

But I think the real reason is because I first suggested in
this column last summer that a citizens' initiative was the best way to fight the HST -- an idea that has now caught on like wildfire.

Who's misleading?

Besides, who misled whom? This is the finance minister who never told voters before the 2009 election he would bring in an HST to transfer $2 billion a year in taxes from big business onto the backs of consumers. And whose party
told the restaurant and development industry in writing it would not introduce an HST?

This finance minister claimed B.C. had a $495 million deficit before the election -- but a
$2.8 billion deficit afterwards!

This finance minister
said he hadn't considered the HST before the election -- but whose officials, according to documents obtained by Canadian Press through a Freedom of Information request, called the federal government about the HST just three days after the May 12 election!

And this same finance minister's government website has this "comprehensive"
list of what the HST would apply to:

"Taxable -- Most goods and services are taxable, which means that HST is charged on the supply of those items. Examples: cars, clothing, furniture, haircuts."

Wow, four examples!

Small mistakes, big battle

I am so sorry that Fight HST -- a grassroots volunteer group without the vast resource of the government -- actually tried to tell British Columbians about the very long list of goods and services they'll have to pay an extra 7 per cent on as of July 1 and made a few small errors.

Fight HST has now pulled the entire page off the website and has challenged
Hansen to produce an actual list of everything that will be subject to the HST -- from restaurant food to funeral services to airline tickets to gym memberships and on and on.

But Hansen won't do that, because the Fight HST Initiative has already gained the support of angry B.C. voters, with a new Angus Reid Public Opinion
poll showing 81 per cent of respondents want to sign the petition.

It also says the B.C. Liberals have plummeted to just 29 per cent support, with the NDP at 47 per cent, Greens at 14 per cent and B.C. Conservatives at 5 per cent.

That poll also shows that a majority believe the B.C. Liberals are arrogant -- 64 per cent -- and dishonest -- 52 per cent.

Hansen and Premier Gordon Campbell should do the right thing -- withdraw the HST.

But don't count on it.

How to join the fight

Meanwhile, please keep signing the petition by checking the
Fight HST website regularly for new signing locations and be patient -- the demand is overwhelming.

And join my
NO BC HST Facebook group, which now has over 133,000 members, for more information and debate!

UPDATE from Monday's BC Legislature Question Period

I just have to share this priceless exchange between NDP MLA Mike Farnworth and BC Liberal Finance Minister Colin Hansen about the government's failure to publish a comprehensive list of what goods and services would be subject to an additional 7% tax because of the HST. This is from the draft Hansard Blues:

* * * * *

M. Farnworth: You know, really what it comes down to is that the Minister of Finance is mad. He's mad at Bill Vander Zalm. He's mad at the NDP. He's mad at the public of British Columbia because they just won't take his word for it or the word of this government.

Will he, when he spends his millions of dollars on this mailout, do what the public wants and show a comprehensive list of everything that is going to go up because of this government's HST agenda? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. C. Hansen: It's actually pretty simple for the member to figure out.

If it's something that's not currently subject to GST today, it won't be subject to the additional 7 percent of the HST.

In addition to that, there is a whole list of goods and things that are on the website which are currently subject to the GST but which will not be subject to the additional 7 percent.

That includes books. That includes children-sized clothing. It includes all motor fuels in British Columbia. It includes home energy costs, and it's pretty easy for the members to figure out. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

* * * * *

In other words - forget about the BC Liberals putting out a comprehensive list - they will only list things that are NOT subject to the HST - not those that are going to cost an exta 7% if the full 12% HST is applied.


Gary E said...

Let's also not forget Bill, that this finance minister is planning to mail out brochures to every household in the province, which I claim is illegal, because they have no standing as opposition to this Initiative. Why is he doing this? Because he wants "conversation" on the issue.
So I'm asking this minister "where was your conversation when you thought we'd sit on our asses and do nothing?" Too late my friend.The masses have awakened.

Anonymous said...

It is said, Hansen has already introduced the HST, in the house of Commons. A province can not cancel anything, once it is in the Federal House. Even if the HST was to be debated in Parliament. All Harper has to do, is not let it be brought to the table, and prorogue parliament once again. I found this information on the web, so, I don't know if this was written in stone. I would appreciate it, if someone could clarify this.

SharingIsGood said...

Minister Hansen mad at you!? Well done, Bills T and VDZ! Congrats!

How do I get my name put on your list?

I have been generally opposed to just about every legislative action regarding their spending and taxation that the arrogant mean-spirited BC Liberal governments have taken since they first took office nearly a decade ago. All but a couple of these scoundrels have been complicit in their economic restructuring that favours the already rich and powerful. Only a couple of (now former) BC Liberals have had the backbone to expose any of their charade. My guess is that the pay, perks and the pension have been raised so much that it is too inticing not to just sit back and keep one's mouth shut while the orders are sent from on high. Too much personal wealth would be lost for any of the gutless, ethically-challenged, BC Liberal MLAs to come forward.

DPL said...

We were just watching Adrian Dix in the discussion about the HST. Adrian went out into his riding looking for the two percent of folks who according to some poll, support the HST. Adrian says he talked to more than one hundred and didn't find one person who supports the tax. His conclusion was the two percent is a high number that falls within the margin of error. He and others suggest the Liberal MLA's could go ask their citizens . They are afraid to ask.

Anonymous said...

BC needs taxation that's fair for people - not just tax cuts for business!

They're selling our rivers to American corporations, flooding valuable farmland, killing our salmon runs, have destroyed the forest industry, and decimated the schools and health and all areas of government service through their mean-spirited and vicious attacks on working people.


Anonymous said...

BC needs taxation that's fair for people - not just tax cuts for business!

They're selling our rivers to American corporations, flooding valuable farmland, killing our salmon runs, have destroyed the forest industry, and decimated the schools and health and all areas of government service through their mean-spirited and vicious attacks on working people.


Anonymous said...

I don't think the www.fighthst.com website could handle the bandwidth for a list of "Finance Ministry items affected by the HST"....for that matter, IF they posted a list, it would probably cost more than the coming mailout--The thing would be HUGE!

Anonymous said...

This has had to be the most EXPENSIVE photo-op in the history of BC Politics. Five jet plane loads of bought and paid for party hacks and campaign donators. What a gig. All to direct attention away from REAL issues. Dollars stripped from Education, Health and Welfare to fund one ego maniacs dreams of grandeur. Quit now Gordon while you still have a head. It is interesting that not one scene on the news broadcast ever showed the faces of the folks ferried to the dam. Political organization at its best it seems. Spend no expense to make a major announcement with political 'parasites' for an audience. Just had to comment on the damn dam programme. Burgess

Anonymous said...

In the Vancouver Sun today Vaughn Palmer lays out how the HST came about after the election was won.

Its quite clear that if the BC Liberals are kept in the dark we get surprise announcements from them such as the HST, but what of other decisions made by them eg. BC Rail sale; BC Hydro dismembered; Site C dam; Vancouver School Board advisor who is to report to the Minister (and Cabinet) long after the decisions are made locally by those elected to look directly after the children.

As soon as possible, RECALL should be put into action on every BC Liberal MLA.

The biggest surprise thus far is Campbell's claim that 35,000 jobs will be created in the building of the Site C dam, strange, because to build the WAC Bennett Dam, six times larger, only used 4,800 workers and they did it in five years. Lies, lies, lies.

NeoDude said...

Ah, Bill. Again with the half-truths. I knew you couldn't stay away. So "Hansen went after you in the Legislature". Translation, he said your name. Here's the only reference I found from that day.

"You know, what we saw a year ago was a Leader of the Opposition who, on the carbon tax, was taking her marching orders from Bill Tieleman. Now she's taking her marching orders from Bill Vander Zalm."

Not even any indication that he is aware of your involvement in FightHST.

..."Fight HST -- a grassroots volunteer group without the vast resource of the government" Whoa, let's be clear about who is at the helm of this organization.

Political opportunists. Vander Zalm, Delaney and Tieleman.

In particular is Chris Delaney, who has been shifting allegiances and parties for a few years, priming for the opportunity to be another Gordon Campbell, Carole James, Glen Clark or even Bill Vander Zalm. Leaders who can't be trusted, ready to continue ignoring the people they're elected to represent, for the sake of their own glorification.

Chris Delaney has the most to gain and it wouldn't surprise me to find he's footing most of the bill, even if loans are necessary. Granted, this wouldn't be going anywhere without overwhelming opposition to the tax, but in my opinion it's a bit of a stretch to suggest it was ever grassroots.

Had to include this. "B.C. Liberal Finance Minister Colin Hansen is really mad at me." At first I thought, Yikes I have something in common with Colin Hansen? That's no good. But then I realized, he isn't upset with you, probably doesn't really care what you say. That's partly his arrogance (he's such a good Liberal), partly the Liberal strategy is mapped and ready to handle whatever is thrown at them and entirely Bill Tieleman building himself up to be more than he is.

Again. (he'd make a good Liberal too)

Bill Tieleman said...

NeoDude - Colin Hansen has gone after me in several places several times - last Saturday on CKNW with Sean Leslie was specifically about the Fight HST campaign, in the Legislature it was first about Bill Vander Zalm and the HST, then me about the carbon tax. Outside the Legislature he went after me again.

But feel free to whine away again.

As to Chris Delaney - I'm pleased to be working with him, as I have on other major issues where we shared opposition to the destructive plans of the BC Liberal government - BC Hydro and BC Rail in particular.

Fight HST will fully disclose all contributions as required but I can assure you, this organization has next to no money - it is very much grassroots.

Can we presume you are one of the few fans of the HST NeoDude? Sure sounds like it.

Anonymous said...

@anon 6:58am who wrote: "In the Vancouver Sun today Vaughn Palmer lays out how the HST came about after the election was won."

Palmer lays out his time line ASS-U-MEing that the BC Liberals and Gordon Campbell were telling the truth about the provincial budget.. to wit: They were ignorant and in the dark about the depth of debt and did not find out the truth until AFTER the election.

Please let me see a show of hands. Who here trusts the BC Liberals and Campbell to tell the truth? Seeing none, I'll sign out now ;)

Anonymous said...

Campbell's Tax Cuts Failed to Work

Jobs and investment were supposed to flow, but didn't. Biggest loser: our wrecked forest economy.

By Kim Pollock,TheTyee.ca

An interesting read and quite relevant to the HST debate.

Kam Lee said...

Exceelent work, do not stop! As for that PABsmear NeoDud, he is a plant, he sounds so familiar. Like his boss, gordo the impaler, he has lots of lies to share. Recall now, not later!

Kam Lee said...

NeoDud, big al, jp, hmmmmm... seem about the same.

Anonymous said...

Best line of the anti-HST campaign so far?

My vote goes to Vaughn Palmer writing in his blog: "I would also note in passing that as of Wednesday, Elections BC was reporting that 4,376 British Columbians were registered as official canvassers, a 10-fold increase in the last three weeks.

If organizers can maintain that pace, they will meet their provincewide target for signatures just by registering canvassers

PeterInEdmonton said...

To be honest I am not following this issue that closely, (resident as I am in Alberta) but I notice one small point, since you are usually a good writer.

Shouldn't this item be titled:
"Finance Minister Colin Hansen is mad at Bill Vander Zalm and me..."?

You'd even rhyme.

Here endeth the teasing.

Anonymous said...

Nope. The best line of the anti-HST campaign. Also from Vaughan Palmer
"they don't have the organizational moxie to pull it off"
Ha! Wrong again Vaughan!

Bill Tieleman said...

Thanks Peter - my mom already called me to complain about my bad grammar!

Anonymous said...

Someone else is fighting back ... and rightfully so.

Anonymous said...

"Thanks Peter - my mom already called me to complain about my bad grammar!"

Should be:

Thanks Peter. Mum already called me to complain about my bad writing. Siad said to me:

"What am I going to do with that boy. He starting to slip."

Anonymous said...

who's got a bad grandma?

NeoDude said...

Thanks for clearing that up somewhat, Bill. I believe that makes my point. Feel free to call it whining if it makes you feel better and count on it continuing as long as your slight of hand writing does. Like this one :

"Fight HST will fully disclose all contributions as required..."

That's an immaterial statement, and may or may not be completely true. There could very easily be unaccounted expenditures that should have been counted as contributions, it really depends on trusting the word of politicians. I don't expect to be doing so anytime soon.

Will the government be spending more than FightHST? Probably. I'm just suggesting that Delaney has reason to put up more money than the average Joe and has enough connections to make it happen if necessary.

Am I a fan of HST? I would say not but I have no plans to sign the petition. I don't have an education concerning taxation so I couldn't say which system is better, really it depends on your definition of better. When someone gains someone else loses.

For myself, I want it to be just for everyone. However we live in an unjust society and I am reticent to trust anyone who makes a claim without backing it up with a thorough explanation. Neither side is doing so and in the end, nothing will be gained or lost for our society as a whole.

I see this whole fiasco as just another lie told by a political party able to take advantage of a ridiculously unfair system of government. If we were discussing the overall fiscal result of the proposed tax I would consider fighting but in that case there must be a suggested alternative to trimming our debt. Unfortunately the opposition is only regarding the mechanics of the tax collection. And that hasn't been shown to me to be necessarily bad.

Don't get me wrong, I can't stomach the Liberal side of the story, but if you want me to buy into your version of the truth, then you need to use a trusting voice. I don't plan to take your political view of the world for granted any more than I would a politician running for office. I challenge you to make me a believer that you are one of the good guys in this province.

Oh, and Kam, you're invited to join me for coffee sometime to hear my full political views. No point going into them here as you seem to prefer your uninformed opinion and nothing said here will change your mind. You may still cling to ignorance after meeting, I can't help that, but at least that way there's a chance you'll get it right next time.

Anonymous said...

"Fight HST will fully disclose all contributions as required..."

and hpefully there will be promise not to indirectly use the collected
names of canvassers for anything in the future. Am aware of the rules, but having worked the political system, it's very easy to conveniently transpose names onto something else for use later,
or conveniently "check" on NDP supporters to see if they still
live where they did during the last provincial and federal elections.

Signed the petition, but have my suspicions about VanderZalm and Delaney.

Tielemen?? Well I don't know..

Kam Lee said...

I guess neodud, that you prefer gordo, vs the truth. Ignorance at its best. HST, unproven at best. Rather we go with the truth then the criminals. Thanks again jp, big al, and their alter-ego neodud.

I've been on holidays on Vancouver island, seems all who I've have had contact with are against this tax. Rolling along quite nicely thank you over here. Not to many care for it. Smart folks.

DPL said...

We got a notice from the Victoria Syphmony office yesterday. Seems they want the HST as of now. Wonder how many other outfits are jumping on the bandwagon just a tad early?

NeoDude said...

Thank you Kam for proving what I had to say. Not quite the challenge that Bill offers but I'm always ready to spar.

1) It was made quite clear, twice actually, that I am in favor of truth so you guessed wrong.

2) If you believe I am ignorant, then by all means contradict what I have said with some substance. You haven't and in fact have merely displayed your own ignorance by attributing my comments to others. I am neither jp nor big al. You guessed wrong, again.

3) HST, unproven. Yes! You scored one for noting that HST has not happened yet in BC. Not sure what that has to do with my ambivalence to it or my opposition to political deception that was the focus of my posts but with your record, I guess you take your shallow victories where you can.

4) We can agree on truth and criminals but apparently not who to believe.

5) You absolutely have got to fill me in on jp and big al. I can't comment further until I read some of their stuff.

6) I'm aware of how many people are against the HST but what exactly do you feel is rolling along nicely? Certainly not the reversal of this soon to be legislation. Smart folks? Smart as you? That's an impressive endorsement.

Anonymous said...

7:58, on Vaughn Palmer, you can add to that "Oh I didn't know line" during the election that same crew didn't know that the Welfare role had shot of 47% either for they told their minion PABs not to release any of the data to the public.

Which leaves this writer asking for the PAB culprit heads for keeping the truth of our finances in a declining shambles during an election. Its downright criminal.

Before the next election BC is going to have to change the way they keep the public informed of our financial state. Before the election we were .5 billion in the hole; afterwards, the day afterwards May 12th, the BC Liberals found themselves 2.3 Billion dollars down.

Kam Lee said...

NeoDud, I would like to buy you that coffee. Just leave your e-mail here, and I will get back to you. The difference between you and me, beside the fact I have right (Also 90% of the population of BC) on my side, is I can back up anything I say. Can you say that Mr. Pabsmear? I suspect not.

SharingIsGood said...

Not long ago, I was at an anti-HST petition signing. My front door was knocked upon a neighbour. He told us where we could go to sign the petition. This was remarkable to me because this neighbour was a long-time Socred who morphed into becoming a BC Liberal supporter when the Zalm self-destructed. He always had a Socred or BC Liberal sign in his yard. When a second neighbour had the audacity to put an NDP sign in his own yard, the first neighbour got another sign - twice as big. All of my neighbours seem to hate the BC Liberals now.

NeoDude said...

You're hilarious Kam. Here you go:


I'm PAB? Did you actually say that? And now you're going to back it up? With what? You have my credentials? That I've never seen?

Don't forget to quote my errors in your e-mail to me. Try copying something from one of my posts instead of just foaming at the mouth.

I'm sure we have lots of differences not just the one you misquoted.

See you soon Kam

Kam Lee said...

LOL. Nicely put there fellow. I hope many folks in agrrement with me will e-mail you. Should prove interesting. LOL

Anonymous said...

Here's another one for the list. Just got my COSTCO membership fee billing, that expires in June. 12%HST is added, to the full year amount, not even 11/12th of the year. No notice to pay before May 1st to avoid the tax. So here is my question, how do we know that all of these tax collectors will actually remit the tax they collect before July 1st, whether or not it is legal to do so.
Colleen J

Anonymous said...



Anonymous said...

In our small city, there are 3 restaurants, who already have, had to close their doors. Friends of my son and daughter-in-law, are losing their land. Everyone you talk to are very worried. There are not enough full time jobs, most jobs are part time. Most parents, have to have 4 part time jobs, mostly $8.00 per hour. What do people do, when they don't have enough money to live on? When two parents lose their mill jobs, and have mortgages, car payments, children to feed and clothe, it doesn't take long, to become flat broke, and lose everything. The budget and the HST, are beyond, peoples ability to pay.

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