If ice is a problem, yo, you can solve it - on Port Mann Bridge - not blame drivers for black ice crashes
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| New Port Mann Bridge in the fog - like the Minister? - Carmine Marinelli Photo for 24 hours Vancouver |
Experts raise questions
about gov't decision to blame drivers, chill out on builders
Tuesday, January 8, 2013
By Bill Tieleman
"@Surrey Police:
#IceIceSurrey If ice is a problem, yo, you can solve it, check out this link
while my DJ revolves it."
Who knew that the
$3.3 billion Port Mann Bridge was designed by slippery '90s rapper Vanilla Ice?
Not B.C.
Transportation Minister Mary Polak, who will probably never listen to "Ice
Ice Baby" again.
More importantly, why
was Polak blaming the 40 unlucky drivers involved in ice-caused crashes on the
bridge Thursday?
Why was she also
blaming the totally predictable freezing wet, foggy weather --everything but
the actual contractor responsible for making sure there's no ice on the bridge?
"There's nothing
they've done that they were negligent in," Polak said
of Mainroad Contracting. "There's nothing with respect to what they did
that they could have predicted what did happen with any certainty."
Polak
went on to put the blame on drivers.
"People are able to reach speeds on
the bridge at rush hour they never were before. As with any type of crash,
there's a number of different causes and issues at play. This is unfortunately
just the kind of circumstance people encounter on the road... chain reactions
result in large numbers of claims," Polak continued.
There's only one
problem with that last statement. The minister doesn't know her ice from her
elbow.
'You can lose
control on black ice at 10 mph'
The website Icy Road Safety explains
all that Polak needs to understand about this winter hazard.
"Attributing the
root cause of road ice crashes to people driving too fast is similar to saying
that plane crashes are caused by pilots failing to keep their aircraft in the
air," the website explains. "For black ice, no speeds are safe. You
can lose control on black ice at 10 m.p.h., particularly if there is any
banking or slope to the roadway."
And guess what? The
new sloping Port Mann Bridge was covered in black ice, despite the contractor
claiming they patrolled it just an hour before and found no problems.
But when you apply a
salt brine solution 25 hours in advance and hope everything will stay safe,
you're on thin ice.
As police reported,
there was no visible salt or gravel and more ice than the Vancouver Canucks have
seen this season.
Despite that, Polak
argues neither the contractor nor the province is responsible for the crashes
and not only will drivers' tolls not be refunded, they'll be responsible for
ICBC insurance deductibles too.
Cold, hard reality
check
If your car was
damaged Thursday, you might think about calling a lawyer and then asking the
experts from Icy Road Safety to testify, because here's what they say:
"An icy bridge's
most dangerous threat is their element of surprise -- they catch drivers off guard,
who are traveling at full speed because the rest of the roads are either clear
or just a little wet," the website notes, adding that
bridges freeze first because they are exposed top, bottom and sides by icy air
compared to just the surface on a road.
And unlike B.C.'s
transportation minister, the website, supported by several American state
transportation agencies, cities, weather services and others, doesn't blame
drivers.
"The result of a
vehicle encountering black ice is no different than if it had been blown off
the road by a tornado, in that both are 100 percent a result of external
weather-related forces that are of no fault of the driver," it states.
Polak should do the right
thing -- demand the contractor pay for damage done to cars last week and make
them responsible for any similar black ice bang ups.
.
28 comments:
Exactly Bill T...
There is much much more to this story..
Why would Mary Polak poke a stick at drivers..Why indeed.
http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2013/01/christy-clark-gets-shanked-by.html
The real culprit (BC Govt) should have demanded that the correct technology be installed for ice detection.
Having been involved on the weather side of Road Mtnc issues for years in BC and the budding of Road Weather Information Systems (RWIS) in BC, I find it difficult that speed was the deciding factor.
Ice build up on the road was the culprit. The occurrence and treatment is responsibility of the Contractor. It is in each contract that the Ministry of Transportation writes and enforces.
Regular patrols were said to be done. Are there records of the individual patrols?
Are there not road sensors embedded in the road surface to warn of ice accretion that are monitored remotely by computer during suspected events? RWIS is structured to give automated alarms when certain thresholds are met, such as temperatures that would produce icing. This should have been included in the construction Contractor’ s contract, as bridges are known to ice.
The real culprit is the organization that did not install the proper technology for ice detection.
Having been involved on the weather side of Road Mtnc issues for years in BC and the budding of Road Weather Information Systems (RWIS) in BC, I find it difficult that speed was the deciding factor.
Ice build up on the road was the culprit. The occurrence and treatment is responsibility of the Contractor. It is in each contract that the Ministry of Transportation writes and enforces.
Regular patrols were said to be done. Are there records of the individual patrols?
Are there not road sensors embedded in the road surface to warn of ice accretion that are monitored remotely by computer during suspected events? RWIS is structured to give automated alarms when certain thresholds are met, such as temperatures that would produce icing. This should have been included in the construction Contractor’ s contract, as bridges are known to ice.
Does she have family working for Mainroad Contracting?
There are no road sensors to warn of ice buildup on the structure as there was no initial design requests for it.
The Vancouver area does get black ice but not nearly as frequently as occurs on Alberta roads so the added expense for it, would it be justified? There are no other bridges that have ice detection on them in the Vancouver area.
The maintenance contractor failed to deal with the black ice build up.
They did a put down of saline material at around 5.00 AM that morning, but did not complete cyclic patrols (going over the bridge one way turning around and going over the opposite way, or having reciprocal patrols (trucks in each direction turning around at Cape Horn and 160th Street)
There are no Christy Clark family members working for Mainroad Contracting even at the flag person level.
It will be very interesting to see how the NDP handles the Port Mann next winter, since the weather conditions on the bridge will be theirs to handle.
ICBC subsidizes roads/hwys
This winter, so far, I have lost my windshield and two headlights. Why? look at the size of stones(aka sand) Dept of Hyws contractors now chuck on the roads.
Thanks ICBC and BC gov't!
I heard somewhere today that the BC government did what they love to do, contract out the conditions on our bridges to a US company that has one office in BC and one person in that office. I'm pretty sure I heard it on the CBC. What have they not contracted out
Not exactly correct. Mainline is totally owned by local employees, many of whom were employed by the Department of Highways prior to privatization.
Mainline is not a U.S. owned company and never has been.
Peter Kiwit, the bridge construction contractor is a U.S. concern, but they do not have responsibility for ongoing maintenance. That is carried by Mainline.
Mr Tieleman please start online petition,if you agree, to reinstate BC auditor Mt Doyle like you did with hst.
Thanks
Public is not clear in firing of auditor.Petition is to request reinstatement of Mr Doyle
http://www.gopetition.com/how-to-start-a-petition.php
Corection to earlier post, it is Mainroad Contracting, not Mainline Contracting.
Mainroad is NOT U.S. owned and no family member of Christy Clark's works within it. Mainroad is employee owned and has been since it was put together by former Dept. of Highways employees.
Mainroad does the surface maintenance. The monitoring of road conditions is done by the Ministry of Transportation.
Peter Kiewit is U.S, owned but they are construction not maintenance.
Maybe I was a bit confusing. I didn't mean regular maintenance of the bridge , such as snow removal. It was the forecasting of weather conditions and expected road surface conditions that went south. They keep the Ministry informed of expected conditions At least that's what I heard and believe was correct. Would be easy to find out I guess.
Weather reporting used by Ministry of Transportation:
That's done by Environment Canada. the federal weather agency. Why would they rely on a one person office for a company based in the U.S. when they can receive weather data from Environment Canada for free?
What DPL believes is correct is most likely wrong (again) unless "what you have heard" is verifiable with documentation.
The Road Weather Information System(RWIS) forecasting has been contracted out to US companies for years. I worked on the Environment Canada team that submitted our proposal to the Ministry. They let the contract to a US supplier and that is where it remains.
Perhaps someone should check their facts!
Provide proof and whom and if it used in South Coast Region
There is no proof of what you are saying! But there is more than one Anonymous.
The brine solution was applied the previous day, not 5am of the day of the black ice.
No famliy of CC works for Mainroad. intersting comment! How would you know? I guess the same way you knew that EC provided forecasts for RWIS.
The last RWIS forecaster supplier I know of was Northwest Weathernet, WA. Their website shows they still provide RWIS services to BC. Environemnt Cnada does Not provide free forecasts in support of RWIS!
I know because I have friends that work there. Plus Christy Clark has no other sisters only one brother and he is stupidly involved in politics and always has been. He's not an engineer nor involved in anything related to highways.
If the current contract regarding weather provisions
bother the previous poster that much, try again when the contract comes up for renewal. By then it will be an NDP government and theirs to handle.
As it will be the road conditions next Winter.
The current contract is fine with me, I just wanted to inform that EC did not provide forecast service for RWIS. I doubt that EC would even bid, as they are divesting themselves of any commercial ventures.
So,let me get this straight. Drivers are now to blame for lousy driving, not the bridge deck itself, then its poor weather forcasting, and now the contractors who built the bridge and who according to the minister are not to blame have been ordered by her not to talk to the media. So a blameless company has been muzzled and has lost their freedom of speech. We are not stupid, Madam Minister and we can connect the dots.
Who is we? The same people that will turn to the NDP Minister of Transportation and say the same thing next winter?
Those same people can connect the dots..
but please not when they're driving.
No texting while driving either.
"Who is we?" We are fed up taxpayers.
"The same people that will turn to the NDP Minister of Transportation and say the same thing next winter?" Taxpayers know who fleeced their pocketbooks. Not the NDP, but the most corrupt government in Canadas history!
The PM bridge will destroy premiers chance of victory. Even if they boot her before the next election.
We being fed up tapayers? Oh good I'm with the correct group then. We'll have to carefully scrutinize the NDP to see if they fleece our pocketbooks and try to waste taxpayer dollars on $10 a day daycare when we should be paying for quality medical care for those who are in need of it. Also to make sure that in regards to taxes they leave the middle class and small business alone.
I wouldn't worry about the PM bridge destroying premiers chance of victory. She's done that herself quite well without the PM Bridge project (which was never hers to begin with).
"$10 a day daycare"
Give us specific locations where ytou can find $10 day care.
The NDP had advocated/ hoped for $10 a day day care (heavily subsidized). It was in the news in regards to what the NDP would like to do vs. what they will be able to do.
It was a major policy direction from Carole James.
$10 a day day care doesn't exist, if it did, it would be the product of very heavy subsidies paid for by the taxpayers.
I seem to remember that Quebec has day care around 10 bucks a day, but I can't be sure if it is ten or maybe a few bucks more.The BC rates are huge. And yes its subsidized but lots of things are subsidized.
Well it comes down to what's important and what isn't in terms of what should be subsidized, and how much money is there for such a thing.
It's the NDP's to handle when they start government in June.
"$10 a day day care doesn't exist" Then why give us all the bs? More RWNJ lies.
" how much money is there for such a thing."
There is only a 60 billion dollar debt left by the Liberals. The province is flat out broke. Some sound fiscal managers they turned out to be!
I wouldn't expect the NDP to be accountant like money managers either.
ALso forgetting there was a downturn economic wise which means reduced revenues on natural resources. That coupled with spending means more debt.
I will expect the NDP to reduce the cost of government.
They can start with no government advertising and reducing the size of government and eliminating needless appointments to Crown agencies and so forth. Reduce the size of Cabinet and reduce the size of the political staff in Victoria.
Let's put the "new" in New Democrat when it comes to their governing.
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