No Way YVR!
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| Welcome to Vancouver - $20 Airport Improvement Fee - or else! |
Bill Tieleman's 24 hours/The Tyee column
Tuesday January 31, 2012
By Bill Tieleman
"I'm leavin' on a jet plane/I don't know when I'll be back again."
- John Denver, "Leaving On A Jet Plane," 1966.
If you're leaving on a jet plane out of Vancouver International Airport starting in May, you'll be leaving 33 per cent more money behind for YVR's Airport Improvement Fee.
That's because an unelected, unaccountable YVR board of directors led by a chief executive officer making $500,000 a year wants to raise $1.8 billion, primarily to handle baggage faster for international passengers transiting through YVR to and from Asia.
And they want to take that $1.8 billion straight from your pocket, by increasing the Airport Improvement Fee by $5 to $20 for 10 years on every passenger flying out of British Columbia.
I have a reaction of two words that start with the letters B and S -- Bellingham and Seattle airports!
Take off elsewhere
Thousands of British Columbians are already saving hundreds to thousands of dollars by flying out of those two U.S. airports, fed up with a variety of taxes, fees, charges and fuel surcharges on tickets.
And that will increasingly cost Vancouver airport jobs and governments revenue.
It's estimated that one in five Canadian leisure travellers already drive to the U.S. to avoid domestic taxes and another 11 per cent are considering it, according to a survey by the Hotel Association of Canada.
So it's no surprise Bellingham airport has a $30-million expansion of its own underway to accommodate Canadian passengers.
And it's not shocking that Seattle's airport set a new record for passengers in 2011, with 32.8 million travellers, while Vancouver had just over 17 million last year.
Vancouver's Airport Improvement Fee was imposed as an allegedly temporary measure in 1993 and a former YVR CEO predicted in 1996 that it would be gone by 2002.
But why give a sucker a break?
And don't expect a big public hearing or consultation on the Airport Improvement Fee -- the YVR board of directors can do whatever it wants to the travelling public.
That's because YVR's structure is among the most undemocratic and unaccountable you can imagine for an organization responsible for Canada's second-busiest airport.
In 1992, it was transferred from federal government control to become a strange not-for-profit that does not answer to either the federal nor provincial government.
Here's who gets to appoint the board of directors under YVR's rules:
• The Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of B.C.
• The Institute of Chartered Accountants of British Columbia
• The Law Society of British Columbia
• The Vancouver Board of Trade
• City of Richmond
• City of Vancouver
• Metro Vancouver
• Government of Canada -- two directors.
Those members appointed by the above then choose four members from "the community at large," but any review of the current 14 directors could only conclude that membership is restricted to B.C's elite. YVR CEO and president Larry Berg is also a director.
Board's BC Liberal ties
A review of Elections BC records finds that at least six directors have made contributions over $250 to the BC Liberal Party since 2005, including over $109,000 from "director at large" Rusty Goepel, either personally or through companies he had leadership roles in.
A man listed as "Lawrence Berg" has given over $21,000, and a "Larry Berg" separately gave $2,000.
Elections BC will not give further information about donors to confirm identity.
When asked whether YVR CEO Larry Berg had made contributions to the BC Liberals, the airport authority's director of communications Rebecca Catley responded: "We don't have access to information about the private and personal contributions of Larry Berg over the past seven years."
Canadian government appointee George Cadman has donated over $8,000 personally or through his company.
Other BC Liberal donors on the board include chair Mary Jordan, Carol Kerfoot and Brian Bentz, while director Gerri Sinclair publicly endorsed ex-premier Gordon Campbell in the 2009 election.
Of course, it's easy to make political contributions when YVR's chair is paid $115,000 a year, committee chairs $26,000 and other directors $20,000, plus $1,000 for every board and committee meeting attended and $500 for other meetings.
And it's easy to think raising the Airport Improvement Fee is no big deal when the CEO makes in the salary range of $368,000 to $552,000, when the senior vice-president range is $196,000 to $294,000 and vice-presidents from $160,000 to $240,000 -- with benefits and retirement packages as well.
Loser, not user, pays
The reality is, as Berg has admitted in the media, that rapidly expanding air travel to China is what's driving this expansion.
In an opinion piece published by the Vancouver Sun on Thursday, Berg writes that: "China's demand for air travel is growing by seven per cent annually, one of the fastest growing markets in the world. We want YVR to secure its fair share of that market..."
"Today it takes an average of 90 minutes to connect from an international flight to a domestic flight. In order to be the gateway of choice, connection times are the key... We want to get connections times consistently under 60 minutes," he says.
So British Columbians are going to pay more so passengers flying to and from China and other Asian destinations save 30 minutes. That may be good marketing for YVR, but it isn't user pay -- it's loser pay for those of us who don't need connecting flights when we arrive in Vancouver -- we're home.
YVR actually makes the outlandish claim that it is a "community-driven organization" by pointing out it holds a "public meeting" every year and stating that "we welcome your feedback."
Well here's my feedback -- if you want to raise $1.8 billion for better service to travellers who are only passing through Vancouver, then charge them the Airport Expansion Fee -- but not the rest of us who actually live here!
I'm sick and tired of paying the existing Airport Expansion Fee for 20 years and no, I don't want to pay an extra 33 per cent more per flight as of May.
If you agree, join my new Facebook protest page -- No Way YVR -- and send the airport a strong message -- that if they ignore us, we can take off elsewhere.
.
64 comments:
I usually travel North/South, not East/West. Now with YVR Airport fees, Fuel Surcharges, Improvements fees and USA Air tax, I now go to Bellingham or Seattle to fly out of. More people from Lower Mainland should try the avenue.
So without this fee, how would expansion and improvements be paid for?
It is your choice to go to Bellingham or Seattle, but is the extra time to go to SeaTac all that worth it? Plus parking?
I'd forget the Facebook whinery.
The fee is still going to go ahead.
The other alternative for Canadian flights is Abbotsford YXX.
Seriously Bill? Now you're just sounding like a old, cranky white guy.
And why do you try and make the claim that only British Columbians will foot the bill for the fee hike when ALL passengers through YVR pay it - many of whom are NOT Canadians, but visitors.
Weird article frankly.
When we first moved to Victoria I was heading out to Portugal passing through YVR. At that time flights starting somewhere else didn't pay the extra fee. Not that long after the deal changed and we had to pay the fee. Nobody seems to wonder why an airport can and will charge for every bit that they can.I liked it better when the feds owned the airports but they handed over jurisdiction to some local boards and little things like runway extensions started hitting the travelers hard.Along with fuel surcharges, landing fees and God knows what else.The feds odd load as many things as they can and guess who pays? Other airports are getting into the act so keep your wallet handy
"When we first moved to Victoria I was heading out to Portugal passing through YVR. At that time flights starting somewhere else didn't pay the extra fee. Not that long after the deal changed and we had to pay the fee. Nobody seems to wonder why an airport can and will charge for every bit that they can.I liked it better when the feds owned the airports but they handed over jurisdiction to some local boards and little things like runway extensions started hitting the travelers hard.Along with fuel surcharges, landing fees and God knows what else.The feds odd load as many things as they can and guess who pays? Other airports are getting into the act so keep your wallet handy"
Not bad, but you end up paying anyway, through ta burdens or the fees. The reality is, that infrastructure has to be kept up, otherwise there's a result of massive catchup and with it, huge costs. YVR did not progressively keep up once the 1968 terminal was completed until the expansion came along in the 1990s.
Bill here is probably trying to start a Second Success as he smelled success with the first one.
Wouldn't waste time in a whine cellar as his Fight YVR Facebook
pages. There will be the usual haners on sniping about everything.
But the reality is, the improvement fees are going ahead.
If you don't like it, the train to Seattle leaves in an hour.
Lets remember, the Airport improvement fee in Vancouver is lower than any other major airports in Canada (even after the $5 increase).
We all hate fee's and taxes but what is the alternative to paying for expanding the gateway to BC (for tourist and business) ? Increase income tax for those that dont use the airport ??
Worth every penny. No one is forcing anyone to fly out of the beautiful YVR. Enjoy your crappy destination from Belligham while we fly first class to Paris for the weekend.
I always fly out of "crappy' Bellingham. Its not as fancy as VCR, but who gives a rats ass about that? "Enjoy your crappy destination from Belligham while we fly first class to Paris for the weekend." Some fking elitist beaking off. Must be a lieberal supporter on the take, as usual.
Kam Lee
i agree that people who live in canda shouldnt pay for the yvr fees.
i live in vancouver and i fly home to beijing and back over a 12 times a year. i shouldnt have to pay the fee!!!
From another comment section but related - credit GOT
'if Harper could figure out how to do it, he'd sell the whole country to the USA for 30 pieces of silver'...
I'm willing to correct myself there...with the collusion of the BC Liberals and Alberta Conservatives (same thing), Harper HAS figured out a way to sell Canada to the Chinese, and you can bet he'll be getting a hell of a lot more than thirty pieces of silver for that!
One of the pleasant realities of living on the west coast is watching all those ships full of Canadian resources heading for China, where they'll be made into poisonous crap that we then buy back. Those who actually still have jobs that is. Thanks Steve, and Gordon, and Christy and everyone else - including Paul Martin and a lot of other Liberals - who are getting rich off the backs of Canadians by literally selling the country out from under us.
@"crappy' Bellingham
A lot of us feel the same way about the ferries. A fancier cafeterias / private lounges etc. They are never going to remotely compete with the beautiful BC coast - and we don't want to pay BC Liberals cronies for sh!t polish!
Maybe the BC Liberals will figure out a way to commodify vision? User - mPay windows?
Its funny you should mention Paul Martin. How much do his (off-shore registered) steam-ship lines make shipping this shit back and forth across the oceans - oil from Saudi Arabia, oil to China, logs from British Columbia, wood products to Canada? Seems to me that we'd be a lot better off refining our own oil and milling our own lumber; but the steam-ship lines would suffer.
I'm willing to correct myself there...with the collusion of the BC Liberals and Alberta Conservatives (same thing), Harper HAS figured out a way to sell Canada to the Chinese, and you can bet he'll be getting a hell of a lot more than thirty pieces of silver for that!
One of the pleasant realities of living on the west coast is watching all those ships full of Canadian resources heading for China, where they'll be made into poisonous crap that we then buy back. Those who actually still have jobs that is. Thanks Steve, and Gordon, and Christy and everyone else - including Paul Martin and a lot of other Liberals - who are getting rich off the backs of Canadians by literally selling the country out from under us
So what do you want? Don't buy A KIA or Hyundai. Go for a Volkwagen or Fiat. Or better Dodge or Ford.
and you don't think there were raw logs exported when the NDP was in power? Guess again. Think the NDP will absolutely stop raw log exports? Guess it will snow in White Rock in May when that happens.
Too bad these whiners and complainers don't realise our exports are wanted, and when they are they should be sold.
and who was that kept goin' on about his trip to Japan to see BC products?
Mike Harcourt. not less than 90 days after his election did he decide to reward himself with a little junket to Japan.
Of course nothing he did directly changed anything.
YVR should have to be audited to explain how it spends past money before 5 dollar hike for future purchases.
i live in vancouver and i fly home to beijing and back over a 12 times a year. i shouldnt have to pay the fee!!!
why not? Because you live here, and have the privilege of flying to Beijing PRC once a month? If you can afford the ticket, you can pay the fees. If you don't want to, there's a train leaving for Seattle at Pacific Station near the Main Street Skytrain station.
Be on it.
$5 is too cheap. I would pay more to keep the likes of Kam Lee away. My time is more valuable than yours. Let's see, border wait time, gas and wear and tear on car, parking at the airport all add up. Again, enjoy trying to save $5 when you actually cost more than the $5 you think you save.
"$5 is too cheap. I would pay more to keep the likes of Kam Lee away. My time is more valuable than yours. Let's see, border wait time, gas and wear and tear on car, parking at the airport all add up. Again, enjoy trying to save $5 when you actually cost more than the $5 you think you save."
Plus the time to get there. It's 3 hours to SEATAC and back. On international flights plus another +3 hrs driving time, and 5 to 10 minutes parking search.
I'd rather spend the fee here, and at least for it, I'm getting a world class airport with amenities.
In fact if you live near it, it's easy to leave the car at home at take Skytrain / Canada Line to the airport and back.
But Bill and everyone else here also forgets one thing.
When YVR was federally operated, the board was full of partisan appointees. Plus one or two from the private sector to make it look good.
Also don't forget the workers (20,000 or so during the day) at YVR and ancilliary facilities.
Quite a few are union.
I'm really impressed at how many Anonymous posters are so concerned about this campaign. To be clear, workers at YVR don't see a penny of this Airport Improvement Fee - it's all for construction.
Perhaps - one hopes - unionized construction workers will be used but there's no guarantee of that.
I'm happy to see more work created regardless of union or non-union - but I don't want to pay for any of it!
The $5 extra boosting the AIF to $20 isn't the biggest issue - it's an undemocratic organization doing whatever the hell it likes with no accountability - and the seemingly endless increase in the cost of flying out of YVR.
That is what will really cost union workers their jobs - not protesting this unfair fee hike.
"I'm really impressed at how many Anonymous posters are so concerned about this campaign. To be clear, workers at YVR don't see a penny of this Airport Improvement Fee - it's all for construction."
and therefore Bill, the construction trades union members get the benifit of additional work as to other union such as The Teamsters and Operating Engineers.
Perhaps - one hopes - unionized construction workers will be used but there's no guarantee of that."
A bit of a negative oblique statement there. But typical. Why not be more positive than that? The Third Runway was built using union labour as was the International Terminal and upgrades to the 1968 terminal which was turned into the Domestic.
"I'm happy to see more work created regardless of union or non-union - but I don't want to pay for any of it!"
So who does? The taxpayer in Maple Ridge that hasn't flown at all? The taxpayer in Coquitlam who hasn't had a flight in 30 years?
"The $5 extra boosting the AIF to $20 isn't the biggest issue - it's an undemocratic organization doing whatever the hell it likes with no accountability - and the seemingly endless increase in the cost of flying out of YVR."
What would make it "democratic"? The YVR when it was run as a federal agency was not democratic. The Board was stuffed with Liberal appointees.
Just as BC Ferries was stuffed with NDP appointees when the NDP was in power.
"That is what will really cost union workers their jobs - not protesting this unfair fee hike."
How so? The only way it will reduce union works their jobs is a decrease of significant proportions of airport traffic. Not the fee itself. One can argue that the fee will drive away traffic. It will (such fees always do), but not in significant numbers to affect layoffs based 100% solely on the fee imposition.
You'll see union jobs go with the airlines a lot earlier than you would the ground jobs at the airport.
People have to fly. Where they start is their choice.
Rather than whine and moan, be more positive about keeping those good union jobs here at home. The fee stings, but how else is YVR going to expand and improve to meet travel demands?
List sources of additional revenue in lieu of fees.
Forget assessment airlines more, they are barely breaking even as it is.
So, list where revenue is going to come from to pay for expansion and improvements:
YVR improvement fees, only go with the other many ripoffs in this province. I'm not in the least surprised.
Politicians get to fly first class off our dime, so it's no never mind to them. Some even charter $11,000 per hour jets, to take in a hockey game. People who travel for business have their fares covered by their company's. The elites can well afford the extra fees. Even Flaherty, MacKay and the rest of the ministers, have $1,300 per night luxury hotel suites, also on our dime.
It's just the everyday BC people, as usual, who can't afford to fly anymore. We just stay home. Even gasoline prices are out into orbit. My family won't even come to BC to visit, because of all the ripoff prices. They go to the U.S. instead. They save up to 50% by vacationing south of the border. Gasoline is also much less expensive there too.
The HST has cost BC billions in revenue. Everyone close enough to the border, shop for groceries, gasoline, x-mas shop there, and buy on line from the U.S.
It doesn't hurt the elite to fly out of Vancouver...It just hurts the little guy. The middle class is pretty much gone now. They too are taxed to death. The peons, just stay at home.
"Politicians get to fly first class off our dime, so it's no never mind to them. Some even charter $11,000 per hour jets, to take in a hockey game."
THey do. Mike Harcourt threw away money for his "economic mission" to Japan which didn't result in anything as direct result of him being there on that trip.
"People who travel for business have their fares covered by their company's."
So why not? Why spend $1500 of your own money to go to somewhere to get a big sales order for the Red Wagon company you work for?
and you think the Business agents for unions get around on their own dime? Jim Sinclair? Surely you jest.
"The elites can well afford the extra fees. Even Flaherty, MacKay and the rest of the ministers, have $1,300 per night luxury hotel suites, also on our dime."
Um so do the Opposition Members when they travel. The NDP spent lots of money on their travel too.
"It's just the everyday BC people, as usual, who can't afford to fly anymore."
So its the fee's fault? Heck I would like to fly too, but it costs money.
"We just stay home. Even gasoline prices are out into orbit. My family won't even come to BC to visit, because of all the ripoff prices. They go to the U.S. instead. They save up to 50% by vacationing south of the border."
Hope they carry medical insurance because one small accident and short stay in U.S. hospitals will be financially bad.
"The HST has cost BC billions in revenue. Everyone close enough to the border, shop for groceries, gasoline, x-mas shop there, and buy on line from the U.S.
It doesn't hurt the elite to fly out of Vancouver...It just hurts the little guy. The middle class is pretty much gone now. They too are taxed to death. The peons, just stay at home."
Not a bad start at whine making. Many middle class people fly out for vacations. The traffic volume at YVR shows that.
I object to the increase for two reasons:
1. The increase is an additional tax being levied by an unelected board. The citizens of Canada who have to pay the tax did not have the ability to vote for the people who levied the tax. Specific interest groups are appointed to the board and report to no one except their "friends".
2. The levy is to be used so people travelling from China through our airport can save 30 minutes. I should not have to pay $5 extra for them. Let them pay the improvement fee. If they want to save 30 minutes they can use another airport. They are travelling through, they aren't here to spend time or money.
If we are going to be taxed an extra $5 for any thing I would suggest we could use it for health care, schools, seniors, veterans, child poverty programs and the list goes on.
This is similar to the fare increases on the B.C. Ferries. It isn't that I couldn't afford them, I resented them. I restrict my trips to two per yr. I was not going to give Hahn & the lieberals one more penny than I absolutely had to.
It is my understanding the YVR Airport Authority through their subsidiary Vancouver Airport Services manages an additional number of airports.
I wonder how much of the Airport Improvement Fees collected by the YVR Airport Authority is/was actually been used for upgrading the YVR airport vs. how much is spent in acquiring/servicing other management contracts?
As I said --just wondering....
"1. The increase is an additional tax being levied by an unelected board. The citizens of Canada who have to pay the tax did not have the ability to vote for the people who levied the tax. Specific interest groups are appointed to the board and report to no one except their "friends"."
It is a user based tax. People arriving from other countries and transferring onto flights to the United States from YVR also pay the fee.
ICBC is run by an un-elected Board.
Care to insist to the NDP that ICBC's Board becomes elected with at least 2 at large positions?
"2. The levy is to be used so people travelling from China through our airport can save 30 minutes."
Might be a bit difficult fro someone travelling to YVR from London or Frankfurt to be travelling to YVR from China. Same can be said in regards to those travelling from Mexico to YVR (right Bill?)
"I should not have to pay $5 extra for them. Let them pay the improvement fee. If they want to save 30 minutes they can use another airport."
It's much more than just 30 minutes. Infrastructure needs to kept up to date otherwise if left, you'll enbd end up with the same situation the NDP left BC Ferries in, a real mess, and unable to meet current traffic volumes.
"They are travelling through, they aren't here to spend time or money. "
If they spend at YVR for meals and so forth, they are spending money. Plus being able to keep up volumes helps retain employment for handlers, air traffic control maintenance crews an the like.
"If we are going to be taxed an extra $5 for any thing I would suggest we could use it for health care, schools, seniors, veterans, child poverty programs and the list goes on. "
You're talking tax to a general revenue. It's not a tax, but a dedicated purpose fee.
"This is similar to the fare increases on the B.C. Ferries. It isn't that I couldn't afford them, I resented them. I restrict my trips to two per yr. I was not going to give Hahn & the lieberals one more penny than I absolutely had to."
Well that's your choice. Others disagree and use the ferries. If everyone thought your way, the ferry system simply would not exist as it does, as it would be not worth it, even for an NDP goverment to maintain (2 round trips a year according to your use levels is insane).
I was wondering why the airport needed aquariums with creatures like "jellies"? I also looked "and heard" that annoying waterfall at arrivals. Unbelievablly loud considering I was on a plane for 7 hours last Monday and lost partial hearing.
This airport has been undergoing endless modifications that have nothing to do with "improving service". It does seem that many have had their business pockets lined with wads of corporate cash.
"I was wondering why the airport needed aquariums with creatures like "jellies"? I also looked "and heard" that annoying waterfall at arrivals. Unbelievablly loud considering I was on a plane for 7 hours last Monday and lost partial hearing."
Probably playing the iPod too loud again.
Obviously wasn't the first time being aboard a plane.
I've lost partial hearing listening to NDP MLAs squak negatively about everything.
"This airport has been undergoing endless modifications that have nothing to do with "improving service". It does seem that many have had their business pockets lined with wads of corporate cash."
So what do want at our front door when people arrive here? A nice welcoming environment, or something similar to the old Dunsmuir Bus Depot?
I've been in a few major airports, and compared to YVR a few of them are dumps. I've been through bus stations that are better looking.
Airports are now much more than they were being a 1960's era bus station.
Funny how Canadians and BCers in general like to lift their tail to allow these neocon appointed thieves to stick it in and break it off with nary whimper and a forced smile on their face.
These people who get the big bucks for screwing the public haven't invested a bean in YVR.
The creatures that support this bs must be political masochists.
GHZD
"I've been in a few major airports, and compared to YVR a few of them are dumps. I've been through bus stations that are better looking."
Its all about sales. British Columbia is on sale - everything must go. We want to give the right first impression - fresh, clean, healthy - buy now!
Funny how Canadians and BCers in general like to lift their tail to allow these neocon appointed thieves to stick it in and break it off with nary whimper and a forced smile on their face.
So what happened when the federal Liberals ran Canada and the NDP ran BC, sport?
Its all about sales. British Columbia is on sale - everything must go. We want to give the right first impression - fresh, clean, healthy - buy now!
It's all here, ready for you. One to a customer please.
Buy now before the NDP taxes you to death!
Everything should be user pays so this is perfect. Start tolling all bridges and highways. Get rid of free health care and put in $20-50 per visit fees. Pensioners should be 70 before getting a dime. That's just the start. Make it happen!!!!
before Airports under Transport Canada pooled all money together to run all Canadian airports,now under this unelected boards of Airport Authorities we as tax payers pay for upkeep of second and third tier airports.While 1st tier airports have now found the right to tax.How is it that a not for profit Authority own 17 companys that are for profit?Why is there no public audit when in there annul report it states that they pay over $300.000 a year for maintaining a aquarium,why is it they will not publish there salarys or bonuses,are these bonuses paid out of the never ending AIF?Are any of there salaries paid out of this?When there number 1 money maker is the AIF followed by parking,then duty free..sounds strange I don't see airlines using the facility in the top 4....Just the citizens of BC.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Funny how Canadians and BCers in general like to lift their tail to allow these neocon appointed thieves to stick it in and break it off with nary whimper and a forced smile on their face.
So what happened when the federal Liberals ran Canada and the NDP ran BC, sport?
Well Slick, it was Aholes like you that got BC into the category of the "MOST CORRUPT PLACE ON EARTH".
Your just another Liebrel fart catcher.
CGHZD
Well Slick, it was Aholes like you that got BC into the category of the "MOST CORRUPT PLACE ON EARTH".
Uh-hun, and its fools like yourself who figure everything is going to be very sweet and nice for everyone in BC after if Adrian Dix becomes Premier. Try again Cupcake.
Your just another Liebrel fart catcher.
Um right, and what does place you?
Behind a shovel at a horse barn no doubt.
Must have been fun being at the back of the class.
Let's debate the issues here friends, not just fire insults - more informative.
To Anon 1:08 am:
So instead of answering my question about Jellies and waterfalls, you have to make personal digs about me? Quite childish indeed. How about justifying such expense instead of childish remarks this time? Or am I wasting my time with you?
PS. The BC Liberal party is finished because of corruption, but that has squat to do with my comments, anyway.
"Quite childish indeed. How about justifying such expense instead of childish remarks this time? "
As YVR about justifying the cost of an aquarium. You can send a question to them (and about the fees) yourself. I don't work at the airport and there's no sense of taking a person by the hand in doing the research. Do that yourself.
Remember: Google is your friend.
"Or am I wasting my time with you?
PS. The BC Liberal party is finished because of corruption, but that has squat to do with my comments, anyway."
P.S. The NDP isn't going to magically turn B.C. into your expectations of a paradise. Far from it.
We'll see the initial cheers and "ha ha's pointing to the BC Liberals", but then after a few months reality will set in. Then the fun begins.
They won't make much progess. The NDP has more baggage than a vacation flight coming in from Puerto Vallarta Mexico.
But that has squat to do with the actual fee debate anyway.
Unless of course the people aboard that arriving flight has willingly paid the Airport Improvement Fee.
as usual, you article about YVR increased costs has degenerated to,"I hate the NDP".Try to stay focues folks
It is interesting that someone who really hates the New Democrats, reads and responds to a BT article. I doubt Google really cares about aquariums and waterfalls in airports, but I can assure the readers here that airlines really have no need for either. However, the responder should know that jellies and waterfalls are doing fine in Puerto Vallarta. Cabron.
Dr.Phil, we need you!!!
"P.S. The NDP isn't going to magically turn B.C. into your expectations of a paradise. Far from it."
You do not know me, so please refrain from assuming anything about me. I am not an NDP lover. I AM a corruption hater, though.
You do not know me, so please refrain from assuming anything about me. I am not an NDP lover. I AM a corruption hater, though.
and don't assume anything about others. Too many here assume Anonymouses are something called "PAB" what ever the hell that is. I don't know what they are, and since I am not one of them, I don't care what they are.
If you are a corruption hater, you as I do love the BC Liberals for it.
You as I will have alot fun in regards to hating corruption when a Premier Adrian Dix government exists.
When that happens, you'll want to fly to a vacation spot such as Puerto Vallarta, even as it does mean paying out the Airport Improvement Fee.
"The PAB" are a group of at least 200+ persons employed by the BC Liberals to "manage the message".
PAB = Public Affairs Bureau
"Manage the message" means that these 200+ people are paid to call in to radio shows, comment on blogs like this, write into newspapers, etc.
These PAB act as though they are regular people - in other words they do not disclose the fact that they are being paid to say or write - is an opinion paid for by the BC Liberals via your tax dollars.
To give a little perspective - the BC Liberals employ more anonymous PAB's than the Obama government.
PAB, Public Affairs Bureau.
The propaganda machine of the corrupt B.C. Liberal Party.
I remeber the 90's though. I made a truckload of money in Real Estate. People were buying. Inflation was my best friend. Now, sadly the only inflation is in taxes and user fees. That helps no one. I also remember that this was once a "have" province.
Too bad we are stuck with 4 years of Harper as well, as unemployment and debt sets more records. But as long as you are happy with that... .
"PAB = Public Affairs Bureau
"Manage the message" means that these 200+ people are paid to call in to radio shows, comment on blogs like this, write into newspapers, etc.
These PAB act as though they are regular people - in other words they do not disclose the fact that they are being paid to say or write - is an opinion paid for by the BC Liberals via your tax dollars.
To give a little perspective - the BC Liberals employ more anonymous PAB's than the Obama government."
and you don't think for one second the NDP has an equivalent in their part of the equation? Or they won't have something similar if Adrian becomes Premier Dix?
That the NDP doesn't pack radio show call-ins or plant NDP favourable messages into blogs such as this one (which is easy)
and all of that is being paid with your tax dollars? (The NDP receives Caucus Office money and that pays for researchers and the like, plus the Party has an advertised means of getting out the message by members).
Shit, boy. Do you have alot to learn. It's no sense in leaving a seat in the front left row of the class.
But you're in the wrong class here, son.
This is "Airport Improvement Fee 220".
Your class is down the hall to the left.
Looks like our PAB member has been drinking too much Mr. Pab kool aid!
Remind us of just who has been running the province into the ground these past 11 years. Perhaps you like paying more taxes, but the rest of us will remember all of the Bull S*#t come May 2013. Your friends are finished. Back to NW for Christy!Kaput!! PS. Did you enjoy the latest political opinion poll last week?
"Looks like our PAB member has been drinking too much Mr. Pab kool aid Remind us of just who has been running the province into the ground these past 11 years. Perhaps you like paying more taxes, but the rest of us will remember all of the Bull S*#t come May 2013. Your friends are finished. Back to NW for Christy!Kaput!! PS. Did you enjoy the latest political opinion poll last week?
and what does your whine and orange juice induced rant about the BC Liberals have to do with the Airport Improvement Fee??
Stay on topic please.
Anon 5:36 p.m. has a lot to learn.
They said: "and you don't think for one second the NDP has an equivalent in their part of the equation? Or they won't have something similar if Adrian becomes Premier Dix?
That the NDP doesn't pack radio show call-ins or plant NDP favourable messages into blogs such as this one (which is easy)"
It was the BC Liberals who axed all the communications staff who were merit appointments with, for the most part, BCGEU membership, and replaced them with Order In Council appointments.
OIC means responsible to the Premier and appointments can be cancelled just like that. I was Communications Director in the Premier's office and right an OIC - but almost all communications staff were public servants and continued on whoever was in power. That's as it should be - but Gordon Campbell wanted total control.
The only case of paid phoney callers to radio talk shows etc came up in the Basi-Virk pre-trial hearings and allegedly involved supervision by BC Liberal staffers like Mike McDonald - now in Christy Clark's office - and Mike Morton, Campbell's then-press secretary. David Basi allegedly was paid big bucks to organize such callers as well as phoney protests supporting fish farms, etc.
I've reported it all on this blog, 24 hours and The Tyee so it's no surprise to Anon 5:36 p.m.
If the BC NDP doesn't return to communications staff around the province being merit-chosen public servants they deserve all the criticism they get and then some.
But until that time don't dignify a blatant abuse of taxpayer dollars by saying everyone does it - no one did it till Gordon Campbell - not Vander Zalm, not Bennett, not Harcourt, not Glen Clark. But Christy Clark is continuing it.
If the BC NDP doesn't return to communications staff around the province being merit-chosen public servants they deserve all the criticism they get and then some.
I wouldn't bet a muffin at Blenz for that happening Bill. The NDP
will scheme out something.
There will be a basis of merit, but I will bet it will be on how creative that merit is.
and even if it is back to merit based public service, they will still have to dump out the propaganda at tapayer exepnse according to the wishes of the Premier's Office Director of Communications. It's just a matter of who does it and when.
After all you know as well as anyone "rewards" are the opiate of
volunteering in political parties to many.
Don't expect the NDP government to be all things goodly good to everyone. It won't happen.
The NDP is carrying more baggage than that flight of yours to Puerto Vallarta did.
This is the NDP. The same one that stabbed Carole James in the back and turned the knife.
Back to the AIP.
Excellent news - Anon 5:36/9:30 pm and probably others on this thread is a regular reader of my blog - even knows I went to Puerto Vallarta!
Green Party supporter perhaps? Don't sound like PAB to me. But it doesn't matter.
The difference between then and now is that the lowest communications person on the totem poll, doing forest fire reports or snow on the highways news in whatever remote outpost of northern BC reports to Premier Christy Clark.
That never happened before and it's wrong. Very simple.
Yes, of course all governments use communications and advertising to their best advantage, within some restrictions - which the BC Liberals have pushed beyond previously unimaginable boundaries.
But let's grant that point for now.
The topic we're talking about - as a sideline to YVR - is government communications STAFF - not ads, not PR campaigns - the people who talk to media in every part of the province. They now all report to the Premier and they didn't before.
If the NDP doesn't reverse that, it's dead wrong. That's my view and you can quote it down the road if necessary but I've been on the record for nearly a decade on this.
See you in P.V.!
"If the NDP doesn't reverse that, it's dead wrong. That's my view and you can quote it down the road if necessary but I've been on the record for nearly a decade on this.
See you in P.V.!"
Yeah right Bill. As for the guy or girl reporting on snow conditions on the highway near Deas Lake sends in the draft to Christy Clark so she can read and approve it. I doubt that. But along the same lines, the Director of Comunications directs his/her people to write what the Premier wants, there will be propaganda junk coming out of an NDP Premier's Office.
As for the NDP, I doubt very much you would be as critical against them as you are against the BC Liberals (and rightly so).
If the NDP comes up with some idiotic policy (even if it does not match the idiocy of the HST and BC Rail), you'll just write a short column, and not much else.
You'll say "it's dead wrong" and just move on.
See you at Senior Frog's in PV.
"Stay on topic"? Yeah, right!
Hey Bill, next time you want to visit Mexico, please consider Cabo San Lucas. I have been to PV once and hated everything about it. I asked"what is that in the ocean?". It's NOT algae, it's sewer!
I got robbed at "El Pescador". Pestered endlessly at the malecon, and garbage everywhere.
Cabo is full of Canadians, and no crap anywhere. I stayed at the Wyndham a few weeks ago. Right on the harbour. SOOOO much nicer. Give it a try next trip. Cost was only $198 plus tax for 1 week with brekkie buffet and drinks included.And it's a very safe city to boot!
Have fun!
Thanks for the advice Anon 8:54 a.m. - I had a great visit to Cabo last year and may just do that next time! Perhaps I'll fly out of Bellingham or Seattle if I can't help stop the AIF hike!
Perhaps I'll fly out of Bellingham or Seattle if I can't help stop the AIF hike!
Well Bill, that's your choice.
Mine? I'll pay the fee and help support the workers at YVR.
If you want to support Bellingham and SeaTac, go ahead.
It's not like you're spending an extra $20 a day flying in and out of YVR unless you're part of the privileged that gets to fly around with Adrian during the next campaign
Just as I will pay out taxes that are imposed by an NDP government to help support our beautiful province.
and by the way Bill, since you're a "communications expert", you used the wrong word in relation to totem.
You used totem poll which doesn't make much sense unless you're conducting a poll of totems.
The correct word is "pole" which is a vertical cylindrical object as in a totem pole or telephone poll or power pole.
Be careful in what you wish for.
ANON 10:38 a.m. - thanks for catching my late-night typo on "totem poll" - I have polling on the brain apparently! Can't correct it without deleting and reposting but you've rightly pointed it out.
Workers at YVR don't get any part of the Airport Improvement Fee - it goes to buying art - totem poles! - and the Fee hike will go to expanding connecting services for Asia travellers. Many YVR workers want the AIF hike blocked because they know it will force more BC travellers to go to Bellingham and Seattle, as I pointed out.
I doubt that I'll do the same but pretty clearly tens of thousands of others already are - and that will be ain increasing problem for YVR.
Thanks for the sharp eye.
It's also my choice and thousands of others near the border to shop for the best deal. I often fly out of Seattle. Saves me a few hundred dollars each time. I also bought gas today at Ferndale. And just to infuriate you, I bought a ton of dairy and saved about $40 today crossing the 49th. Being gouged by governments here and in Ottawa is not for me. You continue to support these crooked governments. I cannot and haven't bought gas here for about 10 years! My holidaying with family is anywhere but in "Beautiful B.C." (sic) As I said earlier, I paid $198 plus tax to get to Cabo including breakfast, air and hotel. You can't get a decent hotel downtown for that.
Free enterprise buddy. I like freedom of choice.
Funny that reminds me of that famous VanderZalm phrase "bad British Columbian." I don't hate this province, but I do hate getting ripped off. Is that so bad?
I think Bill Tieleman is a PAB.
"It's also my choice and thousands of others near the border to shop for the best deal. I often fly out of Seattle. Saves me a few hundred dollars each time. I also bought gas today at Ferndale. And just to infuriate you, I bought a ton of dairy and saved about $40 today crossing the 49th."
So let's do the math. Assuming you live in the Vancouver area (not directly north of Ferndale in Clvoerdale , you burnt off roughly $2.00 to $3.00 each way in gas totalling $6.00. Spent time idling at the border, and consuming about 2 hours round trip time to save $40.00. Doesn't sound too benificial to me.
By doing so, you've eliminated some money to the local dairy farms in Chilliwack and Agassiz, not to mention Dairyland.
"Being gouged by governments here and in Ottawa is not for me. You continue to support these crooked governments."
So you would rather be gouged by the U.S. govermnet instead? Washignton State does have underlying taxes but they are embedded into the price of the products.
"I cannot and haven't bought gas here for about 10 years! My holidaying with family is anywhere but in "Beautiful B.C." (sic) As I said earlier, I paid $198 plus tax to get to Cabo including breakfast, air and hotel. You can't get a decent hotel downtown for that."
Downtown is not Cabo San Lucas.
Free enterprise buddy. I like freedom of choice.
Funny that reminds me of that famous VanderZalm phrase "bad British Columbian." I don't hate this province, but I do hate getting ripped off. Is that so bad?
Reminds me of that famous prhase the NDP has used:
"Working British Columbian".
and yes dear boy it is your choice.
Free enterprise buddy. Besides I'd becareful about buying expensive electronic products from the States. The warranty on those is not valid in Canada. So if the screen dims, you're on your own.
I have bought in the U.S. many times, but it has been products that aren't available in Canada.
The mean difference in gas prices isn't all that much factoring in the time and cost to get to Blaine from Vancouver and the North Shore.
Not bad.
Bill ran the NDP's equivalent of PAB for Glen Clark.
On the subject of PAB, let's remind ourselves that the folks who worked previous to King Gordo, were all government employees and not beholding directly to the Gordo. I believe they were union members as well They were replaced by selected people many of which hadn't been government who take their marching orders from the Premier. They toe the party line or else.
"On the subject of PAB, let's remind ourselves that the folks who worked previous to King Gordo, were all government employees and not beholding directly to the Gordo. I believe they were union members as well They were replaced by selected people many of which hadn't been government who take their marching orders from the Premier. They toe the party line or else."
Probably true, but the Director of Communications in a Premier's Office directs his or her staff to formulate the Communications Plan.
That means be it NDP or Lieberal they spew the propaganda whether they are BCGEU or OTEU or non union. Does not matter.
The NDP will come up with something similar.
The only difference is that people like DPL will absolutely adore what the NDP message is, even if it is a product of spending taxpayer money to get the message out. Despite that in itself being very hypocritical of an NDP caucus that whined and squealed about the BC Liberals previously on the same topic.
But the cure is a nice trip to the South Pacific islands, inclusive of Airport Improvement Fee.
"Downtown is not Cabo San Lucas"
You got that right, buddy. Not a single crackhead in sight.Nice beaches ,too. 25 degrees c as well.
"So you would rather be gouged by the U.S. govermnet instead?" I save about $30 just in gas there, buddy.It costs me $2 round trip. I live in South Surrey. 2 pounds of cheese is about $5. Milk $2.50Gouging? Give your Lieberal head a shake! So let's do the math! I spend $2 to save about $60 each time. Plus we go to Bellis Fair and enjoy the Old Country Buffet for lunch. $6.89 or so, plus 8.5%. No HST there buddy.
"The warranty on those is not valid in Canada. So if the screen dims, you're on your own." Electronics are disposable, and Washignton is actually spelled Washington.
"
"Working British Columbian". Unemployment in B.C. is rising along with the taxes.
I will agree that shopping and travelling outside this province is bad for the B.C. economy, but this isn't communist country. We ARE allowed to travel where we wish. We do it because that's how we make ends meet, rather than do without.
You should get out of the country more often. B.C. is really not the best place. Not horrible, but NOT the best.
Enough of this subject.
"You got that right, buddy. Not a single crackhead in sight.Nice beaches ,too. 25 degrees c as well."
That you can't see. They're probably cookin' it up in the hotel rooms. It can get 25 c here
in the summer.
"So you would rather be gouged by the U.S. govermnet instead?" I save about $30 just in gas there, buddy.It costs me $2 round trip. I live in South Surrey. 2 pounds of cheese is about $5. Milk $2.50Gouging? Give your Lieberal head a shake! So let's do the math! I spend $2 to save about $60 each time. Plus we go to Bellis Fair and enjoy the Old Country Buffet for lunch. $6.89 or so, plus 8.5%. No HST there buddy.
There is Washington State Tax. Buddy.
So you live in South Surrey. Yeah so? Many obviously don't.
"The warranty on those is not valid in Canada. So if the screen dims, you're on your own." Electronics are disposable, and Washignton is actually spelled Washington. "
$2500 electronics would hardly be called disposable. and let's expand that. if you bought a new car at Chuck Olsen Chevrolet, the warranty is not valid in Canada.
"Working British Columbian". Unemployment in B.C. is rising along with the taxes."
Nothing new there. Unemployment was high in the early 1980's and also in the early 1990s.
So it will be up to you to convince the NDP to hold the line on rising taxes. Good luck with that one.
"I will agree that shopping and travelling outside this province is bad for the B.C. economy, but this isn't communist country. We ARE allowed to travel where we wish. We do it because that's how we make ends meet, rather than do without."
So, by doing that you're taking away money that could be spent here creating more economic growth, but it is your choice, as it is mine. Many spend more than they should, but that's their choice.
"You should get out of the country more often. B.C. is really not the best place. Not horrible, but NOT the best."
I have. probably travelled far more than you have, but you'll never know. Let's begin. I've been to 12 states in total travelling during the summer. But it is my choice. I've been to 3 other provinces. In BC almost everywhere except north of Prince George.
"Enough of this subject."
Agree. Buddy.
Net time if you fly, pay the Airport Improvement Fee and no whining about it. Buddy.
To Anon 7:34. Just a guess, but I bet you are about 25?
To Anon 7:34. Just a guess, but I bet you are about 25?
To Anon 104: Just a guess, but I bet you are about 7?
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