Later today Premier Gordon Campbell said in several media interviews that the government would recognize a "majority vote" against the HST as the final word.
"If people decide they want to get rid of the HST next September, then I guess we'll get rid of the HST next September," he told the Vancouver Sun on Monday
But Campbell has not clearly stated that the vote would legally be binding - and in fact it would violate the Recall and Initiative Act if it were not amended by the BC Legislature.
Much remains unclear about the premier's statements but one thing is very clear - delaying any vote on the HST until a year from now is unacceptable to Fight HST.
Imagine anyone thinking of buying a newly built house, condo or apartment - or homeowners considering a new roof or major renovations:
Who in their right mind would proceed if they thought a year from now they could save the extra 7% HST on a $50,000 or $100,000 expenditure - let alone the tax on a new home worth $800,000 or more?
The BC Liberals need to introduce legislation to allow a binding referendum on the HST with a simple majority of those who vote to decide.
That's the only way to fairly decide the HST issue and return stability for businesses affected by the HST.
UPDATE:
Here are excerpts from this morning's Fight HST News Release, which answers some of the poster questions below:
PREMIER MUST LEGISLATE BINDING REFERENDUM
Vander Zalm: Premier’s call for binding referendum requiring a simple majority vote requires legislative action.
.
Victoria – Fight HST Leader and former BC premier, Bill Vander Zalm, says Premier Campbell’s call for a binding referendum requiring a simple majority of votes cast to kill the HST will require new legislation or amendments to the Initiative and Recall Act.
Vander Zalm says the premier’s announcement came immediately after both the Liberal and NDP members of the Standing Committee voted unanimously to submit the “HST Extinguishment Act” to a non-binding Initiative Vote requiring an undemocratic threshold of 50% of all registered voters to pass.
“The statement by the premier shows he is starting to understand he can no longer dictate his will on the HST to British Columbians, and we welcome that if he is truly sincere,” said Vander Zalm.
But Vander Zalm says a number of issues were raised by the premier’s comments. “First, as much as we welcome this change of heart, it is not his decision to make. He must reconvene the legislature and amend the Initiative Act to allow for a truly democratic referendum that is binding and requires a simple majority vote, since the current legislation does not allow for that.”
Vander Zalm pointed out that Elections BC confirmed at the hearings today that Cabinet has the final say over the question to be asked. “If that’s true, the only way to ensure a fair and accurate question is asked that reflects the intention of petition is to allow both Elections BC and the proponent, Bill Vander Zalm, to participate in drafting and approving that question together with the government.”
As well, Vander Zalm says that the government should not use taxpayer funds to advertise its position on the HST while acting as an official “Opponent” of the referendum. “There is no way the people can compete with the government using their own money to oppose them. We say there should be a level playing field, and that both sides should make their case through public meetings and through the media.”
Vander Zalm says that with BC still in recession and the government running massive deficits that there is no point in government spending huge sums of money trying to skew public opinion. “If Premier Campbell truly wants a democratic process as he says, he will respect the financial limits of the people to fight back against his government.”
Vander Zalm says the referendum must be conducted before the end of 2010. He says it would be highly irresponsible to wait another year to vote on an issue as pressing as the HST. “The damage to the economy from waiting until September 2011 will be incalculable. It will slow spending down even more than has already happened. In the case of new home construction, investment real estate, and home renovations, it will kill those industries completely, since everyone will immediately halt major spending in anticipation of the HST being extinguished.”
“Even major municipal capital projects will be put on hold as towns and cities wait to realize huge savings from ending the HST.”
“Consumers will continue to be hurt as well, and need relief sooner rather than later from this regressive tax,” added Vander Zalm.
30 comments:
From today's Globe and Mail:
“This whole thing is the biggest scam I’ve ever heard in my whole life,” he declared, speaking to reporters in the corridor. He said he’d have nothing to do with the referendum based on his own initiative petition, and instead promised to announce plans next week to start recall campaigns seeking to fire B.C. Liberal MLAs.
But later, when told of Mr. Campbell’s surprise decision to accept the will of a simple majority of voters, Mr. Vander Zalm said that he may put the recall campaign on hold.
And my comment?
Bill Vander Zalm may be remembered as the guy who destroyed Social Credit, but in actual fact, he only joined that party after unsuccessful runs as a federal Liberal candidate, and later for the BC Liberal leadership.
So - who's surprised that he is withdrawing his threat to recall Campbell and the BC Liberals? Not me!
After all the Liberal lies and deciet Zalm can quit and wait but the rest of the avergae overtaxed lied to public can continue , Campbell has lied to often we can have 0% trust in this man now look at his show today i hear teh soundtrack from flipper in the backround im sure what a load of crap Recall next and Bill dont back down we will be there.
Come on Bill, it’s only the idiots in Fight HST that might actually believe that if you actually were to get rid of the HST that there were not be some other tax coming up out of the woodwork to replace it. I realize that is the dirty little subject that you never like to talk about but it is also true. By the way, you also forgot to mention that the NDP voted in favour of going to the referendum as well. I suppose “democracy” only fits the shoe of Fight HST when it meets your own agenda. Good luck with your recall effort now. It’s all about democracy right?
You're now truly scared, Anon 12:06,worried about your future in or supporting this government.
And for good reason!
Campbell is trying to convince us all that he would allow the voters to decide. He has lied so often that any thinking person should think very carefully before believing him. He is trying to stop the recall , and I really don't believe that is going to be stopped. The stupid ass, could have "arranged" to have the present petition go into the house and try to defend it. Call a free vote and see the results. No need for 30 million and another year of confusion. Even better Gordo, leave to "spend more time with your family"
A number of Liberal hacks will be jobless this fall. I do expect a few more anons to show up on this and other blogs telling us how Gordo's idea would be just great. Igore them as well. Gordo is on the run
If the Libs want a referendum so bad, and are willing to throw the rules out to do (yeah, I believe em) why not have the referendum now? Why wait? Wouldn't that stop the uncertainty certain parties were whining about?
PS Yesterday I signed up for a recall campaign for one of the Libs on the list. Bring it on!
The only thing Bill Vander Zalm can put on hold is HIS campaign for recall. It is not up to Bill whether an individual can start a recall. That is the right of any registered voter in this Province.
And anyone who doesn't realize that Campbell is stalling so he can get all the money from Ottawa, then turn around and tell us that it is impossible to cancel the money grab, had better look at his past record of what he tells this province.
Campbell simply cannot tell the truth.
"Bill Vander Zalm may be remembered as the guy who destroyed Social Credit, but in actual fact, he only joined that party after unsuccessful runs as a federal Liberal candidate, and later for the BC Liberal leadership.
So - who's surprised that he is withdrawing his threat to recall Campbell and the BC Liberals? Not me!"
Agree with this one. The person who is a sham on this is VanderZalm. Watched him last night, and he couldn't even get the qualifications of voting on the referendum right. It's not those who were registed to vote in 2009's election that can vote on the referendum, it is anyone who has correctly registered to vote as of voting day September, 2011.
VanderZalm also walked out in 1983 from government, and decided on a sabbatical. In 1984, he ran against Bill Tieleman's friend Mike Harcourt for Mayor of Vancouver. That was a disaster that did happen.
So what we have now is every registered voter gets to decide on the HST, not just a political sham in the legislature (the NDP already stated its opposition during debates in the spring), and also there was the 20% of the voters who signed the petition.
The referendum is what was originally aimed for and now it is here.
Sounds to me Like Generalissamo
Campbell has decided he is going soon and he is going to leave the entire debacle to his successor. No doubt now that History will proclaim Gordo as the most corrupt politician in Canadian History. Lies ..Lies..and then more lies..
Unreal ! Hard to imagine this clown still has supporters out there.
You did a good job explaining the real costs of the HST to individuals - and the real concern about economic uncertainty if the year-long wait for a referendum occurs.
You are right: for Campbell to say "trust me" when few people do - is a dog that won't hunt.
You did a good job explaining the real costs of the HST to individuals - and the real concern about economic uncertainty if the year-long wait for a referendum occurs.
You are right: for Campbell to say "trust me" when few people do - is a dog that won't hunt.
From: Steve Dockeray
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:02 AM
To: b bill ; good@cknw.com ; nw ws ; nwnews ; programming com
Subject: We are seeing a classic case of deflection Today
We are seeing a classic case of deflection Today ie: Ledge Raid restarts Monday & BOOM Gordo pulls out a New set of HST Propaganda to deflect from the Ledge Raid case etc.
steve dockeray
milner bc
canada
Why a year from now?
Because like a person that cheats on their spouse this is a strategy used to deceive and manipulate.
Gordon is counting on the electorate being unable to sustain today's anger for an entire year - and it is a realistic strategy. How many of you still feel the same sense of anger or betrayal after a year has passed? How many of you just would rather "move on" or "get on with it".
This is what Gordon and his ilk are counting on. Besides which, what makes you think he'll keep his word a year from now?
RECALL.
I heard it on NW this morning with Campbell-
Caller: 'i believe you will still be here in Novemeber'!!!!
Could there be the chance that Campbell will be GONE in
Novemeber?!
SAY IT IS SO :)
Three Times a Ticker in 2011
April 2011 for Recall by-elections
September 2011 for the HST Referendum
November 2011 for Municipal elections
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Two Questions
Who believes Chairman Campbell when he says he will abide by the majority of the voters?
Who believes Chairman Campbell will still be in the Chair when the HST Referendum ballots are counted?
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One Open and Accountable Party
Sean Holman noted last week that as the BC Liberals go around the province casting secret leadership endorsement ballots there seems to be a distinct shortage of privacy: "Some also found it odd that there was no voting booth available where members could fill out their secret ballots away from prying eyes."
The referendum could be sooner. But curious for Bill "Willie Woodshoes" Vander Zalm to be seemingly upset this is going to a referendum, when he's been such a supporter of direct democracy over the years.
I believe Campbell and Hansen, have put BC into debt, by the billions of dollars. There is no way they want the opposing parties, nor, the citizens to learn, just how badly off this province really is. We since have learned, the HST papers were on Hansen's desk. The HST went to Harper, faster than the speed of light. Hence, we know Campbell and Hansen, lied and cheated to win the election. However, it is corruption and greed, that is really what governs this province. Campbell lied about selling the BC Railroad, our rivers, our mill jobs, went to China. We know, Fadden from Canadian Intelligence is keeping a close eye on BC, perhaps for good reason.
Bill Vander Zalm was upset because under the rules of the recall and initiative legislation, the deck is stacked towards the government i.e. the vote required would be 50% of all registered voters as well as a requirement for 50% in 2/3 of all ridings. If that was the bar for electing members to the legislature, the chamber would be empty.
After the decision by the legislative committee, and after Bill Vander Zalm was interviewed by the media, Campbell backed down and unilaterally "changed" the rules so the referendum would pass or fail on 50% + 1 (although Colin Hansen said today there wouldn't be rebates if the referendum threw out the HST).
Vander Zalm isn't upset now but is asking that the promise that the referendum be in writing and also suggesting that it be done sooner.
The only reason for the year long delay is to save Campbell's hide.
There is no way, the BC people are going to trust Campbell's word. As we have seen, Campbell's word isn't worth the powder, to blow it to hell, in a hand basket. Campbell is a dictator...What dictator in history, has ever been trustworthy? Campbell has based himself on, lies, deceit, broken promises, corruption, theft, fraud, a criminal DUI, spite, hate, malice...He has not one saving grace. He is as evil as, beelzebub.
Bullspit. Not"good enough" - that just won't do. No truces, no white flags, no peace talks.No way. I have NO trust in Campbell- he'll twist and pervert anything to suit his needs and those of his bootlickers. Does anyone with just a pinch of common sense believe any thing that comes out of his liehole?
Not just Campbell, but the entire flock needs shearing and then turned into recall mutton. It's time to have a government that represents those that sent them, not those that bought them.
What's happening to the recall campaigns?
I find it rather disconcerting that Mr. Vander Zalm is focussing on the referendum, rather than recall campaigns.
Recall the Liberals now, or lose.
A Liberal leadership convention is likely coming next year, and the new leader will not be tied to Campbell's promise to uphold the referendum result. The new leader/unelected premier will only have to obey the law, and the law says that at least 50 per cent of the registered voters must cast ballots in the referendum ... and that is highly unlikely.
Recall is necessary.
Force the election now.
Or the lying pro-HST Liberals will win the day!
Recall planning continues by Fight HST - the Premier's announcement of a vote is not based on following BC legislation - it's a "trust me" plea - no way!
We need recall, this isn't about just the HST, it's about calling a corrupt government to account.
And who can trust the Leiberals to have a fair referendum?! Look at their recent track record with Elections BC for starters.
I thought, the Liberal leadership convention, was in Nov. 2010? Anything Campbell has to say, is always deemed a lie. BC would be a hundred times better off, if we could get rid of this phony, BC Liberal party. We are fed up with their agenda, of ripping off the citizens. I think Campbell should be satisfied, with all the money he has pocketed. Campbell and Hansen have blatantly lied to the people. It wasn't beneath their dignity, to cheat, for Campbell's re-election. They will be forever, known as, liars, deceitful and cheats. They are totally responsible, for the billion dollars of debt, this province is suffering.
The HST has caused a lot of damage. Small business owners, are closing their doors. Real Estate is failing. Restaurants, are really hurting. The HST, has sent costs on everything soaring, especially food costs. Price gouging in BC, is permitted by Campbell. So, between, the provincial budget tax hikes, and the HST, on pretty much everything. This winter, for the have not's, is really going to put people out of their homes.
From Bill's column:
"Gordon Campbell said that the government would recognize a "majority vote" against the HST as the final word.
But Campbell has not clearly stated that the vote would legally be binding - and in fact it would violate the Recall and Initiative Act.
The BC Liberals need to introduce legislation to allow a binding referendum on the HST with a simple majority of those who vote to decide.
That's the only way to fairly decide the HST issue and return stability for businesses affected by the HST."
What makes you think this would violate the Recall and Initiative Act? As you can see, the government can just do whatever it wants at anytime. That's why we have the HST. If Campbell "chooses" to cancel it because of a non-binding vote, so be it but I don't think anyone actually believes him. The government doesn't "need" to put in any legislation and while it would be fair, well come on, this is the Liberals we're talking about.
Remember your electoral reform history, Bill? Campbell could have brought in BC-STV back in 2005 when the result was 58% Yes. The best he would do is allow another vote with 60% as the bar. That would have been devastating to Liberals (and NDP) because it would eliminate ALL dictatorial issues not just the HST. His proclamation indicates he's not at all worried about the referendum result next year. Why is that? My theory is that it is a good PR stunt seeing as how he won't be Premier by then anyways. Liberals will pick a new leader in November, Campbell steps down, successor is not obligated to stand by Campbell's announcement.
"I thought, the Liberal leadership convention, was in Nov. 2010? Anything Campbell has to say, is always deemed a lie. "
No, the only thing happening at that convention is the announcement of the results of a so-called "leadership review" vote taking place at Liberal Riding Association AGMs.
The vote itself is a sham since a very low result does not mean Campbell steps down automatically.
Don't look for anything to cry and whine about regarding the Liberal convention other than it will be nothing but a show for the blind loyalists. There won't be anythng dramatic. It will be boring to say the least.
Like the NDP, the Liberals have leadership conventions after a leader steps down. The NDP should like the Liberals have one, since James, like Campbell has been leader for too long and needs to be replaced.
What was the Zalm's problem last week? He threw a hissy fit when it was clear that we would be going to a referendum. Who does he think he's fooling, pretending this is the first he has heard of politicians being self-serving? Of course it's undemocratic. That's what you get when you live in an undemocratic society. Too bad no-one involved in politics wants to change that.
If the referendum, is before the end of 2010. That would be the reason for waiting, on the recall. Van Der Zalm, is far from stupid. He wants Campbell's written statement, a referendum, will be, before the end of this year. If Campbell refuses, then the recall happens. Most BC people, want the recall started yesterday. BC citizens, would like to see, Campbell, Hansen and the bogus, BC Liberal party, thrown off the planet. I certainly trust, the Zalm and Tielman, to do the best they can, for the people of this province. Where would the people of BC be right now, if it wasn't for, Zalm, Tielman and the rest of the good people, fighting for BC people. We would be, up to our asses, in alligators.
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