tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post8873781610760941478..comments2023-07-25T02:39:44.615-07:00Comments on Bill Tieleman: BC enters The Year of Living Politically Dangerously - BC Liberals and NDP both at riskBill Tielemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03304971610140279157noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-83819342982603977332010-11-26T10:11:29.663-08:002010-11-26T10:11:29.663-08:00Second, you can't bridge the obvious logical c...Second, you can't bridge the obvious logical chasm in your own words. If I'm working for Gregor and Tzeporah Berman - check the rest of my blog for what I've said about her! - then why did I lead opposition to the carbon tax?<br /><br /><br /><br />That should throw them off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-6378798414152684392010-11-25T20:16:32.362-08:002010-11-25T20:16:32.362-08:00Not sure if you are aware of this development Bill...Not sure if you are aware of this development Bill but I think you should take a boo.<br /><br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/2apfrosbadbetanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-58064912123996656082010-11-25T18:21:57.295-08:002010-11-25T18:21:57.295-08:00DPL said... 3:27 PM PST
folks who write about iss...DPL said... 3:27 PM PST<br /> folks who write about issues, if they really feel strong about their posts, they actually call themselves something besides anon. <br />-----------------------------------<br /><br />I concur, how bloody lazy or unimaginative are people who won't come up with a simple title for themselves? Sh!t even a number will suffices if need be.Henrinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-48385399584249633852010-11-25T17:22:19.061-08:002010-11-25T17:22:19.061-08:00Yes, Bill as a matter of fact it would have. The ...Yes, Bill as a matter of fact it would have. The closer you get to the truth, the happier I am. What other examples do you have? I don't recall seeing the Clone Party registered yet so is there a political party where members speak freely and are in total agreement as to what is best for everybody?<br /><br />I also disagree with you about your ideology comment. I think what you mean to say is that they have policy differences (because their supporters are different). In the end though, they both are nothing but power hungry scam artists. They have different strategies to make this happen, one tugs at the hearts of the compassionate, the other tempts the greedy and uncaring. But in the final verdict, both are tossed from power by voters who see them as liars and thieves. It all makes me quite sad, much like your column.NeoDudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-21400269801374961032010-11-25T15:27:55.235-08:002010-11-25T15:27:55.235-08:00Hi again anon, you must understand that political ...Hi again anon, you must understand that political cartoonists have some brains and see the way things are going. Politicians don't like being made fun of. I recall one politician who took a cartoonist to court way back when. Yes it is relevant, because people laughing at you can and often do damage to credibility and for that matter, folks who write about issues, if they really feel strong about their posts, they actually call themselves something besides anon. The politician with the fly problems was Bill VanderZam, a fellow who has now forced, with the help of 725 thousand voters, to basically drive Gordo from power,( mind you he isn't exactly rushing to the door, unlike Danny Williams who announced today and will,be gone in a week)) which gives the NDP the chance of regaining power in BC. But with a rather weak leader of the NDP,( a caucus leader that has over a dozen MLA's sitting on their hands doesn't look like a skillful leader who folks really want to follow) it's likely that the party will simply not make it, for the third time with Ms.Dithers. <br /><br />Sorry to be long winded Bill, but like many I feel James has stayed beyond her shelf life. Time will prove me right or wrong.DPLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-77592760002674134462010-11-25T15:19:36.988-08:002010-11-25T15:19:36.988-08:00I’m not a party member anywhere but I vote and lik...I’m not a party member anywhere but I vote and like a lot of people around here where I live have not been inspired by Carole James or the last election campaign run by the dippers. Good grief you guys can’t get any meaningful traction with the electorate despite your opponents being loathed. Maybe you should think about that fact long and hard. For crying out loud ‘right’ and ‘left’ voters don’t shift that much. You have a base you can count on so put some of that cheer leading energy in to a different demographic. GET THE YOUTH VOTE OUT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD whoever figures out how to do that will win successive elections. You have a base you can count on already put more energy in to the untapped youth vote. Your election runs are boring old school out of touch and easy to dismiss as background noise. Utilise social media and music to the max get some endorsements from popular youth with a ‘following’. Get some candidates that resonate with youth (not Ross Rebagliati types...(real hip progressives don’be scared take a chance) youth with followings) create a ministry not of silly walks but of something the kids can get down with. When the MSM attacks this strategy and the candidates tell them that when they figure out how to get the youth vote out that you’ll take notes but in the mean time they don’t so...Also tell those nasty MSM types that people are paying less attention to the MSM especially youth (because like politicians youth do not trust the MSM) and are getting the news elsewhere and while you are at it tell the MSM that you don’t blame them.Minister of Hypenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-63112381158000596652010-11-25T14:40:20.674-08:002010-11-25T14:40:20.674-08:00Hey DPL,
I am not sure the relevance of political...Hey DPL,<br /><br />I am not sure the relevance of political cartoons attacking Carole.<br /><br />It is obvious she has been mortally wounded. That much was obivous when public party figures like Gregor bailed on her and the party in favour of the Campbell threepeat during the last election.<br /><br />In fact I am not sure how she has survived this long without a single review of her leadership.<br /><br />The fact is the membership of the party has so long been abandoned there has not been a party leader or policy largely supported by them since the early Harcourt days and even then you will all recall how pleased Mike was with the NDP. How did he put it again.... oh yeah "the NDP can be a real pain in the ass."<br /><br />I would argue that the party last resembled a democratic party under Barrett and that was a mistake as he was not even supposed to become premier.<br /><br />Oddly that same character ( and this is where I prove I am a New Democrat) stood up at Provincial Council meeting during the run up to "electing" Carole as leader and said " I think we should change the name of the party because there is nothing New or Democratic about it anymore."<br /><br />You take my criticism of those who undermined Carole in the last election and continue to do so today as support for the leader. Which it is not. <br /><br />Then you go on, like Bill, to discredit my comments by cat calling and saying I am not a new democrat. <br /><br />I find that odd. Its not me who played all angles of the carbon tax to undermine our party and lose the last election. <br /><br />Its not me currently taking pot shots from the sidelines and organizing press conferences that say nothing but serve only to embarass the entire party and deliver body blows to the leader while killing our chances of coming together to form a government in waiting.<br /><br />As a new democract I would not do such things no matter who leads the party.<br /><br />I am interested in restoring Democracy in the party. Not because I am an altruistic idealist but because I think doing so will help get us elected. Or at least, as Bill says, avoid our total destruction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-28487007249972365952010-11-25T13:53:15.456-08:002010-11-25T13:53:15.456-08:00Hey anon 9:15, speaking of spin!!!
If you are NDP ...Hey anon 9:15, speaking of spin!!!<br />If you are NDP you arn't really getting much traction.<br /><br />And as you read the Vancouver papers now and again, I suggest to check the cartoon about the speakers comments( speakers riffs) and then drop over to the Times Colonist in the little town of Victoria to see Reaside's latest on Carole James chances of ever being premier of BC. Raeside has been pretty good to James for a long time. If you are a NDP member, why not talk to some of the NDP MLA's who have concerns with a women they meet with in caucus and seem to have found her wanting Just tell them you are known as Anon, I'm sure they will understandDPLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-27652818039268906632010-11-25T12:41:05.327-08:002010-11-25T12:41:05.327-08:00The whistle blowers in this world get the bum’s ru...The whistle blowers in this world get the bum’s rush so is it any wonder that people sign as anonymous. While we may espouse to be living in a free society with free speech there are many here who know otherwise. Were the new democrats and liberals who voiced their opinions recently warmly received? People can lose a lot for using their names, those who do and can well great those who don’t great as well at least we are participating.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-27808313979782865932010-11-25T09:15:17.008-08:002010-11-25T09:15:17.008-08:00By the way, I had not seen the Province newspaper ...By the way, I had not seen the Province newspaper mention of Gregor not wanting to kick Carole out of her seat.<br /><br />I dont often read the province although i do subject myself to Smitty's stuff when and where necessary.<br /><br />Robertson claims he is responding to the chatter when dismissing interest in the job. And I take him at his word.<br /><br />I obviously made my comments on his historic positioning and I wrote them without the knowledge of this online chat he had with Province readers. <br /><br />It was also noted in that online story that many of the so called "dissidents" were previous allies of his when he was in caucus. So I am not the only New Democrat talking this way as obviously many share the same consideration given his need to respond and for the issue of his alignment with dissonance voters to be the focus. Which only further validates my comments while dispelling your attempt to dismiss them.<br /><br />I am pleased to learn however that he has absolutely nothing to do with the current round of dissonance and is not interested in the job.......<br /><br />Unless of course he happens to be available after a Liberal fourth term as a result of internal NDP dissonance stemming from his former allies......<br /><br />:) <br /><br />The spin is enough to make you dizzyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-44530629749728631792010-11-25T09:11:16.096-08:002010-11-25T09:11:16.096-08:00Sure is hard to engage in discussion with people w...Sure is hard to engage in discussion with people who will not sign a name but rather, choose to remain anonymous. C'mon people. Stand behind your comments and put down a name.cherylbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-88329922817934947222010-11-25T09:04:01.780-08:002010-11-25T09:04:01.780-08:00Thanks Bill,
But I have been a New Democrat all m...Thanks Bill,<br /><br />But I have been a New Democrat all my life.<br /><br />And no nobody talks like me.<br /><br />The only comment I made about Tzeporah is she is connected to the House of Solomon via the hollyhock leadership institute as are many others. <br /><br />She was very public in her attack on Carole and endorsement of Gordo in the last election as was Gregor and many others also linked through the Hollyhock leadership Institute. <br /><br />In fact I said that all the favourable endorsements Campbell received were people with links to the hollyhock leadership institute an organization clearly underwritten by Joel Solomon who also underwrites Mayor Robertson.<br /><br />I did not link you to their Carbon Tax position which they meekly used to stump for Campbell while dissing Carole and the NDP.<br /><br />I maligned you for supporting the house of Solomon in the past and your continued claim of support. I then went on to compliment you for the first part of the anti carbon tax campaign. From there I stated the obvious, which was the fact that the axe the tax campaign (which you were instrumental in) was detrimental to Carole and the NDP and a contributing factor, if not a pivotal one, to our losing that election. <br /><br />I have repeatedly treated you with respect here Bill and while you may have misread my comments they certainly did not warrant such an attack from you.<br /><br />I stick to the comments despite your baseless reprisal. <br /><br />I never linked you to the Tzeporah Berman pro carbon tax position only to supporting Robertson. It is obvious that you were on the other side of that issue with your execution of the axe the tax campaign. <br /><br />In my view both campaigns ( the ABC campaign against Carole based on the tax and your part 2 of the Axe the Tax stuff -which obviously eclipsed the execution of Sustainable BC) were detrimental to Carole and the party at the time of the election.<br /><br />I hope that clears things up for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-65676369631640702232010-11-25T00:31:26.193-08:002010-11-25T00:31:26.193-08:00I am exceedingly tolerant here in allowing diverge...I am exceedingly tolerant here in allowing divergent, contrary and even downright insulting views to be posted - but Anonymous 11:01 p.m. should be warned that to tone down the rhetorical overdrive if they really want to be considered seriously.<br /><br />First, you are no New Democrat - your language is all wrong. NDPers who don't like what I have to say still don't talk like you.<br /><br />Second, you can't bridge the obvious logical chasm in your own words. If I'm working for Gregor and Tzeporah Berman - check the rest of my blog for what I've said about her! - then why did I lead opposition to the carbon tax?<br /><br />Third, Gregor made clear with the Province today - online edition - that he has no intention or interest in doing anything but running for re-election as mayor. And yes, I support him on that.<br /><br />So - try a little harder if you really want to grow up to be a spin doctor or otherwise go somewhere else and practice where no one will notice.Bill Tielemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03304971610140279157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-15882474429733818132010-11-25T00:03:02.685-08:002010-11-25T00:03:02.685-08:00It is amazing that 11:01 pm could write ALL of tha...It is amazing that 11:01 pm could write ALL of that and overlook the fact that the whole reason why the NDP is divided is entirely because Carole James is not a leader who can unify the party, but rather an ineffectual liability that will only cause the party further harm. Pretty much exactly what Bill has been saying all along.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-66748334853854833932010-11-24T23:01:56.931-08:002010-11-24T23:01:56.931-08:00Hi Bill,
You have worked to clarify your position...Hi Bill,<br /><br />You have worked to clarify your position with respect to your working relationship with the House of Solomon, the Greenfather (Joel Solomon) and Mayor Robertson.<br /><br />For the sake of brevity, I am concerned about how you are playing the semantics Bill.<br /><br />This long standing corner of internal NDP dissonance has crippled our ability to win with Carole at the helm because they simply prefer Gregor. I know you have supported them in the past and you claim your continued support, now. This is an issue Bill.<br /><br />I will disregard your play on words with respect to who works for whom, but I will say this. <br /><br />There is far to much riding on who makes up government for this level of selfishness to be justified.<br /><br />I understand that Gregor and the Hollynaut (the House of (Joel) Solomon's Hollyhock juggernaut) forwarded the notion that there lack of support was simply due to Caroles position on the Carbon Tax but there is more to it than that and everyone knows it. People will recall that Gregor and the fellow travellers who make up the hollynaut used the Carbon Tax to essentially endorse Gordo and cinch up the threepeat for him. Virtually everyone who spoke favourably of Mr Campbell in that campaign was connected to the now defunct Hollyhock Leadership Institute including but not limited to Judith Sayers, Tzpeorah Berman and of course Gregor.<br /><br />You on the other hand were very much responsible for the "axe the tax" campaign and your pointing to Jaccards drivel in supoort of your axe the tax campaign is really, really thin gruel. <br /><br />I dont think I even have to point that out to you Bill, cuz deep down you know what I am talking about. Jaccard is a cool pointy headed analyst but a political animal he is not. His analysis on the issue of the Carbon tax was piss poor and his take that Carole's position benefited her campaign and the party was completely off base and he stood alone in that observation.<br /><br />The first round of the campaign against the Carbon tax was AWESOME! No doubt about that, but when we abandoned the adopted platform of Sustainable BC which included Carbon Pricing for a repeat of the axe tax stuff during the actual election campaign we "stepped on our own dick" to put it mildly. (Sorry Carole I said that because I don't think it was your call).<br /><br />Instead we should have left the Axe the tax stuff on the drawing board at the time of the campaign and started shining the light on our alternative policies in Sustainable BC and the Carbon pricing formulas. This would have been an awesome one-two punch and a succesful continuation of the original anti carbon tax campaign. <br /><br />Anyhow regardless of what we should have or could have done. The lesson we need to learn is this.<br /><br />It is not wise to leave governing to the likes of Campbell and his liberal crooks because our own house is divided. I dont think people will forgive Mr Robertson and his role in securing the threepeat for Mr Campbell and their unoffical succesorship planning. Which means it will be difficult for folks to forgive you for your part in that.<br /><br />In the end its about priorities and if folks consider their self ahead of whats best for British Columbia they are not fit to govern. <br /><br />Its that simple Bill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-46760688798850442422010-11-24T21:20:55.384-08:002010-11-24T21:20:55.384-08:00Then you and I must have gone to entirely differen...Then you and I must have gone to entirely different websites because when I go to the federal ndp website the first thing I see is "Jack Layton, NDP" and a picture of his head, bold as brass in the top left corner. He even has the cheek to put his name above the party's name. Above! How dare he!!! At the bottom is a row of flickr pictures, all featuring Jack, and there's a Youtube video of Jack in the right hand side - boy the nerve of this fella. The top right hand corner features Jack's Twitter feed. The bastard! It's like he thinks he's better than his caucus or something, and he's pretty delusional if he thinks that. I mean, he's been leader since 2003 and look how many elections he's lost in that time! What a loser. <br /><br />I wish Tieleman screened these comments for stupidity as well as libel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-90531328081788417332010-11-24T17:57:26.684-08:002010-11-24T17:57:26.684-08:00@Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms Anonymous - 4:43 PM PST - Big frea...@Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms Anonymous - 4:43 PM PST - Big freaking deal?<br /><br />This article is about the <b>BC</b> Liberals and the <b>BC</b> NDP both being at risk.<br /><br />Jack Layton is <b><i>NOT</i></b> a BC politician or even a BC citizen.<br /><br />Jack Layton didn't lose twice in a row to Gordon "Pinocchio" Campbell.<br /><br />Go to the BC NDP party website.<br /><br />TITLE = <b>"Carole James and the NDP</b> ..."<br /><br />Look at the picture of Carole James at the top of the page.<br /><br />Picture logo = "<b>Carole James - Leadership for everyone</b>"<br /><br />Click on the "<b>Carole James</b>" drop-down button below her picture.<br /><br />Click on your choice of:<br /><br />[1] "Carole's Bio"<br /><br />[2] "Carole Speaks Out"<br /><br />[3] "Carole's Tour Videos"<br /><br />QUESTION: Is the BC NDP promoting a political party or a pop singer?<br /><br />Is the <b>NDP</b> the name of her her backup band?<br /><br />BTW, I just went to the federal NDP website.<br /><br />TITLE = "<b>NDP</b>"Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-76719482343495321302010-11-24T16:58:25.756-08:002010-11-24T16:58:25.756-08:00"At the root of both the BC Liberal and NDP p..."At the root of both the BC Liberal and NDP problems are strikingly similar issues -- is there any room for democracy and dissent within political parties?"<br /> <br />Two questions in response. Remember in medieval times when monarchies and other dictatorships kept people in line by imprisoning and killing their opponents? What does democracy have to do with our political parties? At least we're treated with civilized oppression now.Pravda Petenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-55219527462251664042010-11-24T16:43:50.199-08:002010-11-24T16:43:50.199-08:00The federal NDP does the same thing with their new...The federal NDP does the same thing with their news releases. Its always Jack Layton and the NDP this, Jack Layton and the NDP that. Big freaking deal. I fail to see your point enitrely, Paul.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-78258766141038827692010-11-24T15:35:34.033-08:002010-11-24T15:35:34.033-08:00Well, I just received my LAST e-mail from the BC N...Well, I just received my <b><i>LAST</i></b> e-mail from the BC NDP Newswire.<br /><br /><b>Subject:</b> REALITY CHECK<br /><br />QUOTE:<br /><br /><i>"The <b>Carole James New Democrats</b> are advocating for open and transparent governance and a vibrant democracy that fosters discussion and debate with British Columbians ..."</i> etc<br /><br />It looks like the new name for the BC NDP is <b>The Carole James New Democrats</b>.<br /><br />Go to the BC NDP website.<br /><br />HOME PAGE TITLE = "<b>Carole James and the NDP</b> ..."<br /><br />Carole James refers to us all as <b><i>"British Columbians"</i></b><br /><br />Gordon Campbell refers to us all as <b><i>"British Columbians"</i></b><br /><br />Bill Vander Zalm always refers to us as <b><i>"The People"</i></b>Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-49168672324787061152010-11-24T13:46:53.578-08:002010-11-24T13:46:53.578-08:00Oh NeoDude - give it up. Both parties are in inte...Oh NeoDude - give it up. Both parties are in internal battles - that doesn't make them the same ideologically, it's simply an interesting parallel.<br /><br />But you know, I should have included the federal Green Party as a third example with the dissent around Elizabeth May's leadership. Would that make you happier?Bill Tielemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03304971610140279157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-56555199828295288712010-11-24T13:30:20.713-08:002010-11-24T13:30:20.713-08:00A lot of us are activists and many of us are simpl...A lot of us are activists and many of us are simply not accepting James as a person who can lead a caucus well enough to have not only party members, but voters outside the party actually vote NDP.<br /><br />I was listening to a local radio guy today, in Victoria. He said that when James was the school board person he interviewed her,more than a few times, she was on topic,seemed qualified in the topic, sharp, and sounded committed. But since becoming NDP leader she sounds hesitant, not sharp, evasive, and shrill. Not my words , his. He gets listened to by a lot more people than those who read anyone's blog.And he has a name. So lets not complain too much about Tieleman and the number of caucus members who feel she is not the one to actually win an election. Then decide just what we plan to do about it. My view which doesn't mean a whole lot, is that if she is still around, the election will be lost one more time.Take the pension and disappear Ms.James, for the good of the party, and the voters.DPLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-23068092072579275252010-11-24T13:04:49.197-08:002010-11-24T13:04:49.197-08:00Six times during this column you drew a picture of...Six times during this column you drew a picture of the parallel worlds of NDP and Liberal. Does this mean you finally admit that the differences between the two parties are not significant?NeoDudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-31769115973963929312010-11-24T13:03:05.780-08:002010-11-24T13:03:05.780-08:00Campbell sure doesn't mind, helping himself to...Campbell sure doesn't mind, helping himself to tax payers money, out and out theft. De Jong's blatant cover up, regarding Campbell's corrupt sale of the BCR. Campbell and Hansen's election lie, the HST wasn't on their radar. Hansen finally admitted the HST papers, were sitting on his desk, before the election. Campbell's election lie, the BCR wasn't for sale. That's how Campbell got, 6 years of being Premier, by lies, deceit and cheating to win. BC is the most corrupt province in Canada. The BC Liberals are the worst politicians, we have ever known. Campbell controls by threat. Anyone opposing him, loses their job. There is no more Constitution. Our Civil rights and Liberties, have been taken away from the people. Democracy and Freedom, where in the hell is that? We live in a, fascist dictatorship, so evil, it turns my stomach. The BC Liberal party, should be obliterated, never to be seen again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-78428363559922241942010-11-24T12:37:30.307-08:002010-11-24T12:37:30.307-08:00thanks for letting me repeat myself Billthanks for letting me repeat myself BillDave McPhersonhttp://dmcpherson@cope378.canoreply@blogger.com