tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post751496487108845033..comments2023-07-25T02:39:44.615-07:00Comments on Bill Tieleman: Take a sunny vacation in Cuba? Not while there is no democracy and political repressionBill Tielemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03304971610140279157noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-20566823333091521552011-02-09T06:34:36.164-08:002011-02-09T06:34:36.164-08:00Thank you so much.
As a Venezuelan I lived throu...Thank you so much. <br /><br />As a Venezuelan I lived through the start of a regime modeled after Castro, since in February 4th, 1992 Chavez made a (failed) coup against Carlos Andres Perez (+). <br /><br />And for the past 12 years I had to see how my country was destroyed, now to unrecognizable ways by a tyrant, so closely advised by the Castro brothers.<br /><br />It saddened me so much to read some comments regarding this article. I know hundreds of Cubans who were thrown out of their houses, their hard earned houses, and had to leave Cuba with only what they were wearing and had to start from zero. And some of their loved ones never made it out and only have their imagination in order to survive.<br /><br />Cuba might be beautiful, yes. But a prison is a prison, no matter how beautiful it could be.<br /><br />There are thousands of stories that those who comfortably go to resorts and tourist only beaches will never understand.<br /><br />Comparing Mexico to Cuba or Cuba to Canada is absolutely absurd. People would need to be born in another country, with another skin colour in order to understand what it is like. Being born into freedom is not to be taken for granted and I pray to God NONE of you will ever have to live through what Cubans have had to live and die through.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-42509740175893953322011-02-08T11:26:38.408-08:002011-02-08T11:26:38.408-08:00"There's also no McDonald's and no Wa..."There's also no McDonald's and no Walmarts - which makes it a perfect holiday getaway"<br /><br />You can have a perfect getaway anywhere.<br /><br />No one is forcing you to go to any of those stores. I won't buy at Wally Mart, and McDonald's is not a stop for me while travelling in the United States.<br /><br />It's your choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-74827899020631551602011-02-04T22:49:34.302-08:002011-02-04T22:49:34.302-08:00“ Bill Tieleman | February 4, 2011 4:41 PM | Reply...“ Bill Tieleman | February 4, 2011 4:41 PM | Reply <br />Shocking! Not just kitties but rat-ffffing in the BC Liberals! Ha-ha!”<br /><br />Bill:<br /><br />I am very disappointing in you.<br /> <br />Look closely at what you said! <br /><br />Look closely and you will see that your nihilism has destroyed your moral compass. <br /> <br />How can you laugh at this when it would appear from his most recent comments that Adrian Dix has the same attitude towards the Asian community!Deep Throatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-55361435373459292562011-02-04T03:42:03.916-08:002011-02-04T03:42:03.916-08:00That's somewhat noble of you Bill. Not sure i...That's somewhat noble of you Bill. Not sure if you're being hypocritical or wilfully ignorant, possibly neither but I don't think you're that far out of touch with reality. Still, good on you for promoting and being a participant in a worthy boycott.<br /><br />But many of your arguments against Cuba could be applied to Canada also, although certainly to a lesser degree. While we wait for you to boycott Canada, a couple of thoughts from your column.<br /><br />"Ultimately only democracy can respond to the interests of Cubans"<br /><br />Hmm, not ALL Cubans are interested in democracy and since those are the only people that could bring such a change to happen directly, then democracy will continue to ignore such requests of Cubans who are not in power. No, if political change is desired, it will need to take place by force, not necessarily different than what keeps the dictatorship in place.<br /><br />"After all, unlike Cuba, (Canada's) a free country."<br /><br />Such a well written article that I was actually sold on your shenanigans until this final line. I should know better, can't drop my guard for a second around such a sly devil as yourself. But you slipped up, suggesting that Canada is free - tsk, tsk. Not even close, we are so over-regulated it becomes silly at times and we as a nation oppress other countries even more than our own less fortunate. You might want to check out Canada's employed that live in poverty or the further criminalized poor on welfare. I'm sure you could manage that so that our own slave labor market continues unchecked. Is that how you define free?<br /><br />Maybe you will want to encourage ways to make democracy work here in Canada before you try forcing it down the throat of people elsewhere.<br /><br />Or not. After all, it's a personal choice for any Canadian to maintain a perfectly good snake oil enterprise.NeoDudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-63493984679077599572011-02-03T20:08:14.650-08:002011-02-03T20:08:14.650-08:00Bill - You must cringe when you go to the USA with...Bill - You must cringe when you go to the USA with their highest rate of prison incarceration per population in the world (the large majority being non caucasian - I wonder why that is?), their murdering 600,000 plus in Iraq, their billions of dollars going to Israel to repress the Palestinian people and buy their 4th largest military in the world, their billions of dollars going to Egypt to repress their people, and so forth. When was the last time you went there? Have you recently been to narco state of Mexico with it's fraudulent democracy and it's hundreds of millions of US dollars for it's "war against drugs" (read military support)? They kill thousands in the service of a bankrupt US agenda. <br />Cuba secures it's social services for it's people in spite of concerted attempts over the years by the hemisphere's "democratic" superpower to return it to the dark ages of Batista dictatorship. They have done extremely well by their people in spite of all that has been done to over throw them.<br />You really were off target with this one. The nasty dictator flavor of the month is Mubarek. Or haven't you noticed?Andrew Phillipsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-16597831157186027082011-02-03T18:59:29.880-08:002011-02-03T18:59:29.880-08:00Actually "outsourced", I think you do ha...Actually "outsourced", I think you do have a choice. If you choose to support Bill (despite showing flaws in his point of view), well that's up to you. I think Bill is entitled to say whatever he wants, especially on his own blog. But when he deliberately misleads people for his own agenda, then he deserves all the flak that comes with it. As far as name calling goes you are on the same level as anybody else. I can't speak for others but I am quite certain of my sanity and my reasons for my extreme views. I will not back down until I see positive change in our political system and by extension global equality. I don't honestly expect to see that in my lifetime but that doesn't mean I should stop trying. So until Tieleman admits his own guilt in keeping repression alive and well, I'll be here. And if you intend to support him, then count on getting similar earfuls from me as well.Recklessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-28662016369094934542011-02-03T17:50:41.281-08:002011-02-03T17:50:41.281-08:00God Bill, why don't you just make it official ...God Bill, why don't you just make it official and change your name to NED.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-19388239669514566342011-02-03T13:30:06.091-08:002011-02-03T13:30:06.091-08:00There's also no McDonald's and no Walmarts...There's also no McDonald's and no Walmarts - which makes it a perfect holiday getaway.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10605408515168612477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-45110086274375443592011-02-03T11:50:25.427-08:002011-02-03T11:50:25.427-08:00Two of our children spent time working at Moa, nea...Two of our children spent time working at Moa, near the Southeast end of Cuba, at a nickel mine which was a joint venture and employed contingents of Cubans, Canadians, Chileans and various others.<br /><br />Our daughter was there in September 2008 when hurricane Ike hit, and saw much of the town of Moa damaged, 90% of the trees down, etc.<br /><br />The next morning the Canadians, of their own volition, were out working to help the locals clean up, with Quebecois running chainsaws and everyone kicking in, while the Chileans and others mostly sat in their rooms.<br /><br />She says she has never been so proud to be Canadian, and that the local people recognized who was helping and who was sitting it out!<br /><br />By setting this kind of example, our people down there made an impression that has nothing to do with official politics and everything to do with developing good relations at the most basic level.<br /><br />Apparently the Cubans in Moa have also become proficient at street hockey; our son and others brought all the sticks and equipment they could carry, and tell us the Cubans picked up the moves almost immediately - if Cuba ever has a street hockey championship the Moans will have a big advantage!<br /><br />Who knows what else rubs off when there is grassroots contact among people of different nations - perhaps even some ideas about freedom and democracy?<br /><br />By earning respect and affection in such basic ways we can facilitate awareness which in the long run is the key to any kind of progress.<br /><br />For insight into the forces aligned against Castro, read James Ellroy's "American Tabloid" and "The Cold Six Thousand" which presents as dark a vision as Ellroy's LA crime novels.<br /><br />Our son, who is part Tsilqot'in and Cree, and pretty dark, was often mistaken for a Cuban and ID'd by police. This happened while he was being shown around by a Cuban - who would have been in some doodoo if he'd been the one asked to show ID.<br /><br />His older sister actually married a Cuban, but he was sent to Venezuela for a long stretch of government service within days of his superiors finding out about the marriage and it became obvious he would have a terribly difficult time trying to leave Cuba once he returned there.Stewart MacKenzienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-36919550909309385562011-02-02T23:47:36.977-08:002011-02-02T23:47:36.977-08:00When I read "reckless" and the various b...When I read "reckless" and the various brave "anonymous" writers, I have no choice but to support Bill as much as I can. Why can't these guys conduct a civil discussion even when we disagree. They really need to stay on their meds or get some therapy. They are just plain nuts. We can disagree without being stupidly nasty. We have all made our points about being fair to Cuba. With respect to Ida, she has to go. It might not be now (unfortunately) but soon. Everyone who was party to the HST lie has to go. The recall is about direct democracy. Voters in BC need to feel they can have a say. Through them out and get a BC Rail Inquiry. Campbell was heard to say, "Please, no BC Rail inquiry. I'll loose my pension!"<br /><br />By the way, Adrian Dix is on record calling for an inquiry into the BC Rail fiasco.outsourcednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-48187049310676670542011-02-02T20:04:29.869-08:002011-02-02T20:04:29.869-08:00Tick, tick, tick. Time's almost up. It's...Tick, tick, tick. Time's almost up. It's been three weeks since we heard from you about how wonderful the Recall-Ida charade was going, Friday marks the second week of the Don McRae Recall campaign and tomorrow is the start of the 3rd campaign against Terry Lake. But not a peep from you Bill. Are you suddenly embarrassed to have your name associated with this nonsense because of the impending first failure? Yep, Recall is going over as well as ... umm, your Cuba lashing? Glad to see so many insightful responses. It makes me hopeful that you're not fooling people as much anymore. By the way, I highly recommend Mr. Vander Zalm's latest editorial over at FightHST. He's as mental as you.Recklessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-65189481582473578322011-02-02T18:46:33.248-08:002011-02-02T18:46:33.248-08:00Bill,
Have you ever been to the Czech Republic?
H...Bill,<br />Have you ever been to the Czech Republic?<br /><br />Havel, not to put too fine a point on it, would probably have to admit that there's an awful lot of nasty stuff going on in his own country too.<br /><br />In fact, I have been there and I'd put Cuba's treatment of its population up against the way Czech treats its Roma any day.<br /><br />Maybe you should pay a visit to Prague and Brno or Ostrava one day - now that you've decided Cuba is off your list.<br /><br />I don't think you'll be impressed.James Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-91396649189180277912011-02-02T16:58:03.821-08:002011-02-02T16:58:03.821-08:00Cuba may not be "the best place on earth"...Cuba may not be "the best place on earth" but it is a hell of a lot better than a lot of other places lots of canadians go to visit.<br />Yes I am sure there is political repression but then there is a lot of that going on all over the world and Cuba has at least made an attempt to ensure their citizens have a better standard of living, well they do stay alive unlike other countries which simply kill people on the streets.<br />Mexico springs to mind first as a very dangerous place to go and about 30,000 people are killed in drug wars. <br />Then there is China, with its political repression and how it has treated Tibet.<br />Now then we could go on about the Philipines, Thialand, a number of south american countries.<br />For that matter there is a great deal of political repression in Canada or did you forget about the G20 in Toronto. Then there is the USA which has violated its own constitution in the name of "national security" and has more prisioners than most countries in the world.<br />Oh, lets not forget Saudi, Russia, etc. Why pick on Cuba who has managed to at least deliver a safer community to its people than when the USA used it as its whore house, or did you forget that.<br />Bill I can only think you are suffering from a holiday hangover when you wrote the column.e.a.f.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-4800031264848964642011-02-02T12:59:43.152-08:002011-02-02T12:59:43.152-08:00Rural areas in Guatemala (where I come from) are d...Rural areas in Guatemala (where I come from) are deeply grateful to the cuban doctors who stay there not for a two-week visit, but for years doing preventive medicine and helping people to get healthy. Also, the cuban government is given medicine scholarships to guatemalan students who don't have the economic means to attend University in Guatemala. Then they get back to continue the work that cuban doctors started in the first place.<br />Still, my country, since 1954, when the american intervention happened is an insecure place for dissent. Check your numbers and the picture of Cuba is going to look a lot different.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-7704872211016059972011-02-02T11:28:33.585-08:002011-02-02T11:28:33.585-08:00A big improvement over your last post…are you stil...A big improvement over your last post…are you still supporting Adrian Dix?<br /><br />Of course he is. Why wouldn't he?<br /><br />It's like old times. <br /><br />Fighting the 1990's once again.<br /><br />Back then there were no blogs and everyone was using Mosaic or Netscape. Facebook was something that had pictures in it kept at the police station.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-72158116961380478792011-02-02T11:17:41.264-08:002011-02-02T11:17:41.264-08:00Another big tourist place is Egypt. A country run ...Another big tourist place is Egypt. A country run by a dictator for 40 years. Always supported by the US and Israel. I recently read a book about Cuba and how they lend out doctors to other countries. It covered the time since before the US worked with the guys to do the Bay of Pigs, an event that, the incoming President Kennedy found out about as it was happening. By the way, Cuba sells water to the US base in the country. Money talks most everywhere.<br /><br />But happy holidays to all, no matter where you decide to go and visit. My Gosh, my wife did two China trips years ago and has hit some other hot spots with her gang of traveling women.<br /><br />I stay home because after 22 years of going most everywhere there is to go,( we couldn't do East Germany at the time). A stop in Spain resulted in us all getting bounced out of the country( Lots of tourists go there) it’s better for all parties involved.<br /><br />Landing in Saigon during the war, hoping the old UN Flag would keep us alive, or Beirut during a civil war makes Mexico or Cuba, seem pretty tame to me. Part of the thrill of travel is learning to keep your head down now and again.<br />I always enjoy Bill's comments, even the ones I don't always agree with.DPLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-58282600023369145182011-02-02T11:10:14.110-08:002011-02-02T11:10:14.110-08:00I was in South Beach Miami in the 60's and met...I was in South Beach Miami in the 60's and met an ex-pat Cuban who lamented Castro's insurrection a decade earlier. He seemed a trifle unbalanced. Almost breathlessly, he regaled us, young men that we were, with fantastic stories of young prostitutes and superman sex shows that I'm sure he thought would excite us. Whether he was a pedophile I can't say but I understand that Castro cleaned up the decadent, Mafia-funded, exploitation going on there so he hasn't been all bad for Cuba. I don't support tyranny anywhere but I can understand what it must take to fly in the face of U.S. hegemony.<br />I read this blog a fair amount and find lacking a balanced perspective that includes reasonable explanations of inevitable, if unsavoury, outcomes such as tyranny in Cuba. The matter of American tyranny has to be factored in re Cuba. How else was Castro to remain alive and to improve things there? What the hell would anyone else have done in his stead? I know blogs are designed to stimulate debate but they need not deteriorate consistently into black and white schoolyard dust-ups.rogeroutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-25584891969621920692011-02-01T21:53:51.262-08:002011-02-01T21:53:51.262-08:00A big improvement over your last post…are you stil...A big improvement over your last post…are you still supporting Adrian Dix?Deep Throatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-65023998536150335232011-02-01T21:19:27.104-08:002011-02-01T21:19:27.104-08:00One more comment and I'm done with this. Here ...One more comment and I'm done with this. Here is a link to an August 2006 news story in the Guardian newspaper about more than 600 attempts by the US government and CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro:<br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/aug/03/cuba.duncancampbell2<br /><br />This was chronicled in a documentary film by Britain's Channel 4 documentary entitled "638 Ways to Kill Castro."<br /><br />How's that for an egregious violation of human rights, Tieleman, not to mention a complete violation of international law? Write about that in 24 Hours.Krispynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-47411610872238938632011-02-01T20:56:08.166-08:002011-02-01T20:56:08.166-08:00My father, a rabid right-winger who voted Socred/L...My father, a rabid right-winger who voted Socred/Liberal, cheered for Bush and introduced a much younger me to his Western Canada Concept candidate, went on vacation to Cuba with his fourth wife about decade before he died. He came back wholly impressed by the hospitality of the people, the peace in the country and the sights, sounds and life in the cities and on the beaches.<br /><br />Cuba may not be "the best place on earth", but it helped to soften an old man's heart before he died. And for that, I am grateful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-12134875980510763442011-02-01T20:54:42.753-08:002011-02-01T20:54:42.753-08:00Sorry, i forgot to comment on the title of your es...Sorry, i forgot to comment on the title of your essay, "...Not while there is no democracy and political repression" I guess by that criterion, the middle class and rich would have no where to vacation. Name one vacation destination that can boast of democracy and "no political repression." In fact, name me one country that can boast of "no political repression." I suppose the police over-reaction in Toronto for the G-20 was an anomaly? The shootings in the 60s in the USA of students and the Chicago riots were not typical? The genocide by the Canadian government of Native children was accidental? Of course, there are degrees of repression. We need to be aware of what we can do to help truly fight for freedom - and that does not include arming and supporting military dictatorships around the world in the name of "freedom and democracy." I see so little truth and openness, let alone democracy, in our little province where corruption and deception rules the waves...outsourcednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-35768685664704547112011-02-01T20:40:34.178-08:002011-02-01T20:40:34.178-08:00The saying goes, "so far from god and so clos...The saying goes, "so far from god and so close to the USA". I heard that in Mexico many years ago and it is so true. The USA is a drug nation and nearly every nation suffers because of US imperialism. The USA under many presidents tried to assassinate Cuban leaders, wreck environmental destruction and bio-chemical warfare as well as giving extensive encouragement to the mafia and to the cuban fascists that ruled before Castro. Cuba is not Haiti for a good reason. Its easy to criticize from the luxury of Vancouver. But what would you do to protect the people against the USA and the Cuban capitalists who, with the Mafia, would like nothing better than to return Cuba to pre-Castro days. Its nothing to do with socialism or communism. It has to do with choices to stop the USA from taking over. To make a long story short, Cuba deserves support more so than many other destinations for the socially conscious. The human rights abuses must be opposed and that, in the case of Cuba, is not done through continued isolation.outsourcednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-16567539025960107452011-02-01T20:38:58.359-08:002011-02-01T20:38:58.359-08:00What a hypocrite, Tieleman. When was the last time...What a hypocrite, Tieleman. When was the last time you wrote a rant against China? Where's half of your clothes and electronics manufactured, pal? <br /><br />And where's the self-righteous condemnation of the ongoing US concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay, which completely denies all human rights to the detainees? Or the Patriot Act, which removes a citizen's right to privacy and allows government to access every citizen's private information and use it against them, without civilian oversight or ability to appeal being placed on a 'no-fly-list' for no reason?<br /><br />First off, Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the US. They have a higher literacy rate too, and unlike either the US or Canada, university education is free, as is their universal health care system. They have a 'doctors-for-oil' program that sees Cuban doctors work in Venezuela's poorest barios helping people who have never had access to health care, in return for a preferred rate on purchasing oil.<br /><br />I don't know what you're smoking, Tieleman, but it's time you took your head out of your butt and took a look around. Who the hell are you serving, numb-nuts... these days, you sound a hell of a lot more like a neo-con sell-out than a progressive.Krispynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-32769870832444576742011-02-01T18:53:55.049-08:002011-02-01T18:53:55.049-08:00How many people are murdered in Mexico every year....How many people are murdered in Mexico every year. The drug capitol of North America? The police,and government are all in it together.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-70279559273350622452011-02-01T18:44:41.000-08:002011-02-01T18:44:41.000-08:00I believe the US arranged for an embargo between C...I believe the US arranged for an embargo between Canada and Cuban products. <br /> The US had one too but they were still trading secretly under the table Yes Canada got screwed,by the yanks. Then there is Egypt that's run by a psychopath for thirty years. They buy all their military equipment from the US so he had to be protected. Same for Hussein, in Iraq, He had to much oil so the US terrorists.slaughtered the locals so they could steal their oil. <br /> I don't believe the Cuban government is selling off their public assets to the highest bidder in <br /> our corrupt democratic system .<br /> That's where George Burns bought his cigars and smoked them till he was a hundredAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com