tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post7133539514756270032..comments2023-07-25T02:39:44.615-07:00Comments on Bill Tieleman: Mexican Standoff in Ottawa - are they all crazy?Bill Tielemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03304971610140279157noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-2917935371554591612008-12-09T15:19:00.000-08:002008-12-09T15:19:00.000-08:00Vancouver is now finally free of an NPA mayor and ...Vancouver is now finally free of an NPA mayor and Council because COPE and Vision ran a joint slate - a tactic you strongly supported.<BR/><BR/>How can you now be opposed to the Liberals and the NDP working together to remove the worst Prime Minister Canada has ever had?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-76576449635656349362008-12-06T17:21:00.000-08:002008-12-06T17:21:00.000-08:00I felt the energy that Friday night as the forums ...I felt the energy that Friday night as the forums were filled with many a fear full Canadian of what the future has in store for them. And you want to hear the funniest thing of all Bill you know what they are fearing Change? The very thing that has been on the lips of many. Its the world taking on a new market place and we are feeling the pangs but the market will work itself out and regulations will be put into place to ensure the world wide market stays on its axis. I truly feel for the auto industry and other manufactures related to industry and all those unions as their big old trucks and cars take a backseat to Honda and alike as their niche market was a big black carbon foot print. The Conservatives announced it would leave campaign funding intact and the next announcement was a bailout for auto industry both designed to keep Coalition happy. I understand the urgency but is there sustainability? BC's lumber industry has a future as its a product that will always have a place in the market and needs assistance from Government. What did Wimpey say? If you give me a hamburger today I will gladly pay you on Tuesday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-33787105264397183152008-12-02T08:50:00.000-08:002008-12-02T08:50:00.000-08:00Hi Bill; As I have posted on your website a day ag...Hi Bill; As I have posted on your website a day ago: I am thrilled that we will be represented by a coalition government more PROPORTIONATELY to the voters choices than by a conservative minority government.<BR/>And as to the 3 wisemen from the EAST(Quebec that is!)Dion and Layton bring integrity to the union and I like Mr. Duceppe very much as he spoke sincerely and intelligently(without copious notes) during the debates. He represents his constituents admirably well. In fact I admire the efforts of many Bloq MPs who work for the betterment of all canadians; in the last house sitting in particular. I corresponded with MP Gilles A. Perron (yes and I used my high school French but he responded to me in English) for BQ and I praised his efforts(Riviere-des-Milles-Iles)as he tries to guide his private member bill C-517 which called for mandatory labelling of foods containing genetically engineered ingredients.Unfortunately it didn't pass in the days of deregulation of food and money, eh!<BR/>As well, why would I expect the conservatives to support a made in Canada regulation of food safety, much like the Europeans already have; when the conservatives have done their hardy best to break the back of the Canadian Wheat Board. <BR/><BR/>As much as I consider you a hero for your tireless investigative journalism on the Basi-Virk BC government trial; I must believe that the Coalition lead by an honourable man like Mr. Dion, is only going to serve the canadian public better than Mr. Harper. <BR/><BR/>Seeing the amazing preparedness and wider collaboration that the American president-elect team is organizing; makes canadians envious of such leadership.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-1633515218664418322008-12-02T07:33:00.000-08:002008-12-02T07:33:00.000-08:00Mike B, yes, it was a case of a couple of "floor c...Mike B, yes, it was a case of a couple of "floor crossings" or whatever. David Kilgour for one and another Liberal whose name I forget both voted against the Martin gov't which is why Martin reneged on his deal with the NDP, he knew they couldn't save him anyway.<BR/><BR/>FrankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-83872285356806813262008-12-01T22:46:00.000-08:002008-12-01T22:46:00.000-08:00Bill,This post is absolutely nuts. Usually I think...Bill,<BR/><BR/>This post is absolutely nuts. Usually I think you're somewhat reasonable, but you've completely lost your marbles with this post. First of all, what are the alternatives?<BR/><BR/>1) Leave the Harper "government" in place. Why? It has proven that it's not serious about respecting the will of Canadians, who didn't elect a Conservative government, or a Liberal official opposition, or 49 Bloqueists or 37 New Democrats and 2 Independents. We elected a minority parliament where no one party has a majority, as such the only undisputed message one can derive from the election was that we said the parties need to work together. If the incumbent government cannot work with others, then they ought to be replaced. <BR/><BR/>Essentially what this means is that your points about how the NDP should not be working with the Bloc, or the Liberals are highly erroneous. <BR/><BR/>We can't constantly have elections if our parliamentarians won't work together, and no one party can gain a majority. That would leave a massive leadership vacuum, along the lines of the Harper government has done to us.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, I'd just like to point out a little civics lesson that you seem to have forgotten: we do not elect governments. We elect parliaments. Governments are elected by parliaments. Governments must have the confidence of the parliament. If the government does not have the confidence of the parliament, the Governor General can either see if there is an alternative government in waiting (which there is) or if there isn't, then call another election. <BR/><BR/>Frankly, consistently bringing up the separatists is an annoying red herring. Separatism is at a historic low, so the Bloc will not have the ability to bully the coalition into bending to its will. All three parties will work together, yes. But this will be on matters of common agreement, or where common agreement can be arranged. I mean, jeez. You're an informed person, as you well know there's a Quebec election going on right now. The Parti Quebecois has said that if they win, they won't be holding another referendum. Furthermore, the federalist Quebec Liberals seem to be cruising to a majority government. What you're doing by raising the spectre of the Bloc is trying to scare people. It's shameful, along the lines of what the Harper "government" is doing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-6830668523691009252008-12-01T18:02:00.000-08:002008-12-01T18:02:00.000-08:00Layton has caused himself irreparable damage with ...Layton has caused himself irreparable damage with his hopping in the sack with the Bloc. I can only hope, this irresponsibility doesn't pull down the party with him.<BR/><BR/>The above Paragraph I stated here yesterday, today I heard my echo, by a strategist in Ottawa. Simply stated, he said, in the upcoming BC election in May , Carol James may pay the price for this alignment by the federal NDP with the separatist Bloc. Personally,now, Jack, if you were on fire,I wouldn't piss on the best part of you. This coalition with the Bloc was a selfish, stupid, ill thought out move. I most certainly had a great desire to see Carol beat out Gordon next May. Now,I fear the strategist could be correct.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-10175402534823829862008-12-01T17:27:00.000-08:002008-12-01T17:27:00.000-08:00Hi Frank,Are you sure about that? From Canada's P...Hi Frank,<BR/><BR/>Are you sure about that? From Canada's Parliamentary website, I count 99 Conservatives, 136 Liberals, 54 Bloc Québecois, 19 NDP, and 1 independent in that particular parliament. With those numbers, NDP plus Libs should have been enough to outvote all the others. Perhaps I've missed some floor crossings or something.<BR/><BR/>Anyways, I do know of the reasons for the fall of that government, but my intent in bringing up that example wasn't to spark a discussion about that. My intent was to question whether or not federal NDP strategy is sometimes based on obtaining short-term gains at the expense of long-term goals. Does a deal struck with the Bloc Québecois hurt their long term prospects for seats in the House of Commons? What will voters do during the next federal election if the coalition comes into play?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-55331267739591854892008-12-01T16:17:00.000-08:002008-12-01T16:17:00.000-08:00It matters not which party has the most seats, (an...It matters not which party has the most seats, (and it is necessary to note that we Cdns do not elect a PM,) the parties in the House do. In a parliamentary system, the party which can win the acceptance of a budget, whether one, two or three parties in any kind of collusion will earn the support of the Parliament. If Harper cannot, then it is obligatory by tradition that the other members in the House be asked if they can. What is so drastic here? Seems to me it is in the best sense democracy at work once again. I would argue that the best government we had was minority with NDP & Liberals under Pearson. <BR/><BR/>And best of all, in 2004 Harper joined and actually signed his name to a letter with Layton and Duceppe to the GG to form a minority coalition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-55410211052694988082008-12-01T15:33:00.000-08:002008-12-01T15:33:00.000-08:00I think a NDP-Liberal coalition would greatly bene...I think a NDP-Liberal coalition would greatly benefit the country. It may do both parties lasting damage, but nothing compared to the damage Harper will wreck while in power.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10605408515168612477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-46528276152440221052008-12-01T14:50:00.000-08:002008-12-01T14:50:00.000-08:00Alex, Oh right, I'm sure even as we speak mobs of ...Alex, Oh right, I'm sure even as we speak mobs of angry NDPers are tearing up their lawn signs and calling Tory HQ to say they now support Harper.<BR/><BR/>Keep dreaming.<BR/><BR/><BR/>FrankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-81008212805580729012008-12-01T14:49:00.000-08:002008-12-01T14:49:00.000-08:00Mike B, the NDP was responsible for Paul Martin no...Mike B, the NDP was responsible for Paul Martin no longer being PM? That would be great if it was true but unfortunately the NDP never had enough seats to even make that decision. That's right, even if every NDP MP had stood by Martin as he reneged on his deal with the NDP, he still wouldn't have had enough votes to fend off the "coalition" of the Cons and Bloc who wanted to dump him over a little thing called the Sponsorship Scandal.<BR/><BR/>FrankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-40221805295914117492008-12-01T14:47:00.000-08:002008-12-01T14:47:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.zacharyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15959067540601232558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-83138033677202302002008-12-01T14:42:00.000-08:002008-12-01T14:42:00.000-08:00Harper's Way Out...Compromise!Stephen Harper shoul...Harper's Way Out...Compromise!<BR/><BR/>Stephen Harper should propose to sign an agreement to not label any bill as a non-confidence motion for two years,the same as the opposition partners will do in their pact, and thereby give up the bullying tactic that was the most unacceptable feature of his regime. Bills would then be introduced, sent to committee, amended, and brought to the floor for a vote, passing or being defeated by a true majority vote. Defacto proportional representation.<BR/>Don't get me wrong, i'm for pulling the plug. As a lifelong Democrat i'm always voting for the type of Lib/Dem coalition that gave us our greatest social programs such as Healthcare.<BR/>I'm just saying there is an alternative, and that is Stephen Harper can begin to play well with others.zacharyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15959067540601232558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-75797328354792891702008-12-01T13:50:00.000-08:002008-12-01T13:50:00.000-08:00Your analysis is bang on the money Bill in my humb...Your analysis is bang on the money Bill in my humble opinion. I look forward to reading more by you.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14556765364730568391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-31065427890681962902008-12-01T12:38:00.000-08:002008-12-01T12:38:00.000-08:00My respect for Bill has grown exponentially. I alw...My respect for Bill has grown exponentially. I always though he was a NDP hack at all costs, but apparently I was wrong. <BR/><BR/>The NDP and Liberals can only hide in the backrooms for so long. They will pay dearly in the next election and hand the Cons what they could never get on their own, a majority. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-76154247248401117212008-12-01T11:49:00.000-08:002008-12-01T11:49:00.000-08:00Hi to Bill and all of your readers. I'm usually a...Hi to Bill and all of your readers. I'm usually a silent observer and reader, but this attempt at a governing coalition by the federal NDP and Liberal parties has provoked me to write a letter to my MP and the leaders of both parties. The Conservatives removed the most contentious item from the budget, and the Grits and NDP are still wasting time and money playing political games. The Canadian populace voted this particular mix of parties into power, and their job now is to govern the country through a very difficult economic period. Instead, more time is being wasted on political power games. Bill, your last comment, about the NDP and Liberals being punished for this in the next federal election, is dead-on. I've always voted somewhere between left and centre, but this knee-jerk reaction by the two biggest federal parties representing that segment of the political spectrum in western Canada is going to force me to take a long look at the alternatives, because I don't see the Libs/NDP doing anything that gives me confidence in their ability to govern this country any better than the Conservatives.<BR/><BR/>A couple of other comments about the NDP...it's their fault that the Martin Liberal government fell a number of years ago, paving the way for a Conservative government. Where is their long-term thinking or strategy? It seems that similar thought patterns are at work in the talks with the Bloc Québecois.<BR/><BR/>This whole thing seems like nothing more than political opportunism. How, exactly, will all of this help Canadian citizens?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-34759470111915759312008-12-01T11:00:00.000-08:002008-12-01T11:00:00.000-08:00What a wonderful week to be a Canadian.Has anyone ...What a wonderful week to be a Canadian.<BR/><BR/>Has anyone done a cost analysis of the taxpayer funding for political parties, versus the cost of the new record-setting 38-member Harper cabinet. <BR/><BR/>Talk about a tax grab for partisan purposes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-17027360417851006042008-12-01T10:27:00.000-08:002008-12-01T10:27:00.000-08:00My intuition is that any coalition will soon fract...My intuition is that any coalition will soon fracture into one wing of the Liberal Party that merges with the NDP and another wing that merges with the PC.<BR/><BR/>Citizens do not really political chicanery from any wing.morvenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07796315950096254135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-87340532939016114402008-12-01T08:15:00.000-08:002008-12-01T08:15:00.000-08:00Normally, Bill, I find myself in agreement with yo...Normally, Bill, I find myself in agreement with you but not on this issue. The real question here is not what is best for the various partisans, but what is best for the country.<BR/><BR/>We simply cannot afford to continue with this arrogance and right wing agenda in increasingly uncertain economic times. We can't afford the Harper brinkmanship and lack of understanding and empathy for working people. We can't afford a group of ideologues continuing to act as if they have a mandate.<BR/><BR/>The coalition with Bloc support may not be perfect, but the alternative is disaster.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-49135787118683291522008-12-01T06:21:00.000-08:002008-12-01T06:21:00.000-08:00Anon - 10:05 pm.You need to do a little (lot) more...Anon - 10:05 pm.<BR/><BR/>You need to do a little (lot) more research.<BR/><BR/>Start with the Winter 1999 number of the Canadian Parliamentary Review.G Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09487763931438315174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-86228058252904482792008-12-01T01:48:00.000-08:002008-12-01T01:48:00.000-08:00Relax my darlings...relax...I need not weigh in on...Relax my darlings...relax...<BR/><BR/>I need not weigh in on how correct Tieleman is, it's obvious...<BR/><BR/>You all think that Mark Marissen will be convincing enough to have Rae and Iggy stalwarts step up to form a govt and erect a Dion Pm prior to a leadership convention--because that's what this is all boiling down to...<BR/><BR/>Relax my darlings...Harper's idiocy on the timing of eliminating campaign welfare notwithstanding, if Iggy or Rae agree to this deal, the Grits and the NDP will pay so severely at the polls, you haven't the foggiest...but you will.<BR/><BR/>Just watch...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-32808985560932040782008-12-01T00:55:00.000-08:002008-12-01T00:55:00.000-08:00Bill, I totally agree a coalition will not work, t...Bill, <BR/>I totally agree a coalition will not work, the liberal party will try anything to get power and this is the only reason. This is completely self promoting with the liberal party and to see Cretian invloved what a joke. Can't wait to see their idea to stimulate the economy, they could channel funds through a lot ad agencies who have seen their funding I mean government work dry up, what a suprise the liberal parties funding seemed to dry up at the same time. This liberal party, the leader and leadership hopefuls can't balance their own books from the last leadership convention or election. Let's see them fix their own financial problems first. <BR/> <BR/>I liked our governments statement, they are not throwing money around as everyone knows this does not fix anything. We have a strong banking system, money is tight but but our banks are solid. <BR/><BR/>I have never agreed with and would like see this funding of political parties stopped, we are paying a party who's agenda is to seperate from Canada, we are paying funds out to parties who have no elected MP's. Yes it's only $30 million but it's $30 million that could be a lot better spent else where. <BR/><BR/>Let's watch tomorrow as the news of a coalition deal hits the news world wide, what will the market do, what will our dollar do?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-46346445507636956922008-12-01T00:50:00.000-08:002008-12-01T00:50:00.000-08:00Bill, you said, "It's time for all parties to stop...Bill, you said, "It's time for all parties to stop playing games and start saving jobs and investment - get on with it!"<BR/><BR/>This proposed coalition is all about that. As someone whose rights were attacked times two in the brief outline of Flaherty's economic statement, I am convinced that we must take unusual steps to stop the Harpercons. I don't see any suggestions from you as to what you would prefer -- that the opposition parties should just suck it up and support a government like this?<BR/><BR/>Your thread title is erroneous, too. A "Mexican standoff" (and I can't help but wonder about the possibility of racism in that old expression) is a dead-lock, is it not? I would not describe this as a dead-locked situation. It is an imaginative situation, fraught with all sort of dangers, but as a working class woman, I'm glad that there are those drawing a line in the sand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-26115505947647583942008-11-30T22:05:00.000-08:002008-11-30T22:05:00.000-08:00Can anyone tell me why Canada is the only country ...Can anyone tell me why Canada is the only country where taxpayers fund the political parties. Most of you commenting on this blog have not stated your reasons for your belief that Dion, or the American or Rae can or will do a better job keeping Canada stable in these troubled times. I simply do not believe this socalled coalition can operate without Duceppe holding us for ransome, and believe me, we will pay for his demands - Jo5eyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-11794382067796178982008-11-30T21:12:00.000-08:002008-11-30T21:12:00.000-08:00Why is it that as soon as something happens, or wi...Why is it that as soon as something happens, or will happen, in Ottawa the old"the west will seperate" story breaks out.I must have heard it a dozen times or more today. No matter what goes on in Ottawa the west isn't going anywhere, just as Quebec isn't going anywhere. The represenation of the westerd provices is lower than a lot of us wants it to be, but the eastern provinces were guaranteed a number of things when Ontario and Quebec was looking for extra provinces. as Bill mentioned just above, a deal has been set between the NDP and Liberals. Now they will have to seel it first to the GG and then the rest of th country. This whole mess wouldn't be happening if Harper got busy trying to run the country rather than crush the opposiiton parties.Who was the guy that fiddled while Rome burned> I think it was Nero, our new nero is called SteveBoyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com