tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post599344078762650434..comments2023-07-25T02:39:44.615-07:00Comments on Bill Tieleman: Katrine Conroy quits as BC NDP Caucus Whip - supported by Jenny Kwan, Lana Popham & Claire TrevenaBill Tielemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03304971610140279157noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-38630298203523863372010-11-25T11:42:12.647-08:002010-11-25T11:42:12.647-08:00"Delia...do you remember the names of the two..."Delia...do you remember the names of the two women who opposed Campbell during his first term?"<br /><br />The only two NDPers left. Jenny Kwan (who does not support Carole) and Joy McPhail who married a millionaire. The NDP lost the 2001<br />election. THey should have ended up with 15 seats, but got 2. What does that tell you?<br /><br /><br />"Read Hansard!! You'll find that two women provided more, and better opposition than ALL of the members of the Official Opposition now. "<br /><br />Partially true. Most of the NDP MLAs don't know how to be an Opposition.<br /><br /><br />"Frankly, I find your comments about Jenny and those who disagree with Carole ignorant. <br /><br />It's time for a third party in BC, hopefully encompassing those with enough intelligence to leave both major parties while retaining a non-partisan work ethic. Partisan politics is paralyzing our province, and destroying what precious little we have left."<br /><br />So what is this third party? The BC Conservatives? A group of has beens. BC First? Get real. Delaney can't even get the fundamentals right.<br /><br />The Greens are the only viable Third Option in BCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-7980515552255100632010-11-23T12:55:56.765-08:002010-11-23T12:55:56.765-08:00The Mafia is moving into corrupt right wing polit...The Mafia is moving into corrupt right wing politics. They find it to be more profitable than dealing in the drug trade etc. The NDP doesn't appeal to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-19635756390317213302010-11-21T19:37:27.655-08:002010-11-21T19:37:27.655-08:00Delia...do you remember the names of the two women...Delia...do you remember the names of the two women who opposed Campbell during his first term?<br /><br />Read Hansard!! You'll find that two women provided more, and better opposition than ALL of the members of the Official Opposition now. Frankly, I find your comments about Jenny and those who disagree with Carole ignorant. <br /><br />It's time for a third party in BC, hopefully encompassing those with enough intelligence to leave both major parties while retaining a non-partisan work ethic. Partisan politics is paralyzing our province, and destroying what precious little we have left.Leahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-59897012575753930332010-11-20T19:17:58.477-08:002010-11-20T19:17:58.477-08:00I've lost respect for Jenny Kwan. I thought as...I've lost respect for Jenny Kwan. I thought as a senior member of caucus, she would be more mature and constructive--and know a thing or two about political optics. She sounded evasive in the Conroy debacle and looked childish on the sidelines at provincial council.Delianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-92058768584364752142010-11-20T18:22:52.257-08:002010-11-20T18:22:52.257-08:00Hi Bill;
Kind of thought as much. I have those &...Hi Bill; <br />Kind of thought as much. I have those "oh crap" moments myself<br />(no need to post this response)Stan Mortensennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-56911760664451021602010-11-20T18:04:25.046-08:002010-11-20T18:04:25.046-08:00@ 3:32 PM PST: "And that's why the Libera...@ 3:32 PM PST: "And that's why the Liberals in this thread don't like her."<br /><br />The <i>Liberals</i> in this thread <b><i>LOVE</i></b> her.<br /><br />Pinocchio is pleased.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-65893027618167008812010-11-20T17:34:12.672-08:002010-11-20T17:34:12.672-08:00My apologies to Stan Mortensen - I accidentally re...My apologies to Stan Mortensen - I accidentally rejected your earlier comment - thanks for resubmitting before I tried to re-post it.Bill Tielemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03304971610140279157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-84396774572259561372010-11-20T17:29:19.552-08:002010-11-20T17:29:19.552-08:00I am generally an independent voter these days opt...I am generally an independent voter these days opting to vote more for the local candidate than any particular party line. However, party policies can also determine the direction of my vote along with the visibility of the candidate or MLA in the local community.<br /><br />While I profess no knowledge of the internal workings of the NDP, that is where our vote has been over the last several election cycles, I certainly understand the angst that they are going through.<br /><br />Sometimes, leadership means understanding that you have gone as far as you can and that to move things along to the next level someone else has to do that job. I appreciate the efforts that Carole James has made to reach out to a large swath of the community that has felt neglected by the NDP in the past times but she, like the party has to ask herself and itself: Can we move to the next level with the current leadership?<br /><br />I think the voters of BC genuinely like Carole James but they do not really see her as a premier and that is really the rub. She has done a stellar job in steering the party in a better direction but I, like many voters do not see her moving it to the next level. <br /><br />The political dialogue in this province has been defined as a struggle between left and right for far too long where it needs to be defined as the differences between voters with progressive views versus those with more conservative views. Yes, one can be conservative minded but with progressive views on social issues, the same as one can be a progressive with conservative views on other issues. The trick is always in finding the right balance to appeal to the widest range of voters.<br /><br />The NDP needs to embrace the small business community, working class families and to a lesser extent become less reliant on the union affiliations. It needs to become a much bigger tent, encompassing a broader range of the electorate. Always understanding that they will never have the support of big business; the latter will always be in the pockets of whichever party caters to their whims and fancies.Stan Mortensennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-11675553035471960782010-11-20T16:38:20.087-08:002010-11-20T16:38:20.087-08:00Dear provincial NDP,
One small tip, "Don'...Dear provincial NDP,<br /><br />One small tip, "Don't panic."<br /><br />The caucus needs to grow up and learn to act collectively and dance with the one that brung them. Let the Greens into the tent, work cooperatively as opposed to by fiat; no more Clarks or Campbells, Bennet style mini-mes. That iron fisted approach needs to be relegated back to the testosterone heap of BC history.<br /><br />Should the provincial NDP continue on their current fractious path, bravely snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, the BC electorate might rightly conclude that if the NDP can't govern themselves, how can they govern the province?<br /><br />They've been in the wilderness so long, they don't know how to get back. If they can't get their act together and rally 'round the current leader, they deserve to be left out int he cold.<br /><br />Bring em 'home, Carol.Zaphodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-69542717654664375212010-11-20T15:43:53.366-08:002010-11-20T15:43:53.366-08:00The NDP has some very fine social policies, but th...The NDP has some very fine social policies, but they don't have a tax policy to pay for it all. And that's what's going to turn voters away.<br /><br />You'd think that after seven years in opposition, Carole could articulate some kind of tax policy, but nope! She absolutely refuses to do anything but oppose any tax policy put forward by Campbell.<br /><br />And for those who are worried about getting pilloried in the mainstream media - that's what happened in 72, 91 and 96, and it still didn't stop the voters. <br /><br />Grow a backbone. <br />If you don't stand for something ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-5188015401143443712010-11-20T15:40:13.748-08:002010-11-20T15:40:13.748-08:00Kevin Logan asked me to remove his earlier comment...Kevin Logan asked me to remove his earlier comment and replace it with the two parts just above.Bill Tielemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03304971610140279157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-68667196749991215022010-11-20T15:37:43.124-08:002010-11-20T15:37:43.124-08:00Kevin Logan Part 2
She could simply say "Loo...Kevin Logan Part 2<br /><br />She could simply say "Look it you guys, you have never voted for us and I dont expect that to change. It has been a pretty good ride for big business and the global corporate parade but those days are over. Not because I say so but because their policies have brought jursidictions around the world to their knees, created a global crash and have left the electorate angry and confused. Your party may not win the next election as a result and I am here to tell you that an NDP government is not interested in war. We are interested in a healthy economy and fair taxation. We are interested in supporting the backbone of employment in BC by supporting small business with offering progams that include interest free loans for eligible small businesses and seed money for environnental start ups that are cutting edge and work to solve the problems we face as a Province and as a planet. We are interested in gaining your support with positive policies that end the old way of doing business and ushering in new dynamics for local prosperity including localising economies and promoting healthy communities."<br /><br />We must also stop marginalizing our own members and supporters while bending over backwards for our enemies. This is foolish politics.<br /><br />Lets have a leadership review earlier in order to give Carole an opportunity to strengthen her leadership. And failing that maybe there is someone out there stronger who is able to take on these challenges. I dont think it is Bob Simpson but I dont know who it is as there is no doubt a current vacuum and no leader has chosen to rush in and fill it,<br /><br />My final concern is that we should know who we are running against before we cement in a leader. I think a renewed and stronger Carole could beat Coleman, Abbot or pretty much all of the current bench. However if Carole Taylor is drafted that will be a real battle due to a complicit media and the advantage that the liberals would gain by offering someone new and we would be the ones with baggage. No matter how unfair that is, it does need to be considered. <br /><br />SO I think it is wise for the party to consider having an early review or even call it a leadership convention. It would keep us in the leadership/renewal story that will dominate the mainstream media while allowing us more options to ensure we maintain the ability to gain th confidence eof the people in order to be government.<br /><br />It is the responsible thing to do all the way around, for members, supporters and leaders.Kevin Logannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-60313606743847550992010-11-20T15:37:14.931-08:002010-11-20T15:37:14.931-08:00This is an unprecedented course of events within t...This is an unprecedented course of events within the NDP and it has been mismanaged by all involved.<br /><br />First off Carole and company should welcome debate its healthy. We are a political party and that is what we do. We are democratic and inclusive and proud of it.<br /><br />That is not to say she should not be strong with those challenging her leadership like Bob. Its how she has mismanaged Moe and others that has led to the larger breakdown and focus on her leadership.<br /><br /><br />She is also sometimes more of a puppet than a leader and this was bound to get her in trouble. It is sad actually because she has skills - she was great in her presser yesterday, she cleaned up in the last election debate and she does embody the progressive nature of the party being both a woman and Metis. <br /><br />Where she failed is not being tough on the backroom hacks and powerbrokers. They cost her the last election and the division amongst the backroomers is now popping up all over resulting in chaos.<br /><br />She could pull it out of the fire by cracking down on them like she alluded to in her presser. Dump Moe or fix the disaster in internal democracy he represents, sideline steel and the fed whilst having a good talking to caucus about what it means to pull togethor and obtain power for the people you represent<br /><br />Right now every traditional divide is bursting at the seems. Right, left, old guard new guard, rural urban, labour and normal and it is topped off by the egos of folks like Simpson.<br /><br />David Shrecks rececnt stuff is apologist damage control for the most part. The bit about Moe is pathetic but he does rightly point out the logistics. And I am in tune with the notion that shooting ourselves is unproductive.<br /><br />The difficulty people have with Carole and the Chamber types is simple. No one admonishes her for talking to them, That is important. As a leader of the province she would have to represent all of us and lets face it you cant manage the castle if you dont talk to the owners, however "partnering" with them and " giving them what they need" is not the language required.Kevin Logannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-80487872629986517912010-11-20T15:32:20.314-08:002010-11-20T15:32:20.314-08:00She gave a very strong speech that won any doubter...She gave a very strong speech that won any doubters in the room. <br /><br />She was strong, passionate and personal.<br /><br />And she didn't speak to the ideologues. She spoke to the need to reach out beyond the usual suspects, work with business to build a strong economy as well as strong services.<br /><br />The ideologues, in fact, were the few old guard types - Corky, Lovick - who spoke against her. She's putting her stamp on the party and it's a moderate big tent stamp.<br /><br />The delegates were wowed and gave her a very strong vote of confidence<br /><br />And that's why the Liberals in this thread don't like her.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-56494378809637772122010-11-20T15:19:24.250-08:002010-11-20T15:19:24.250-08:00I hope the dissidents get really pissed off and le...I hope the dissidents get really pissed off and leave the NDP on mass, but that probably won't happen. Seriously, the NDP has a serious devotion to staying in opposition. No way will I vote for any party lead by her and I think most British Columbians came to the same conclusion last election.<br /><br />I hope the Carole James supporters agree fully that it is all about Carole. Her leadership clearly IS more important than having a credible leader for the NDP. If the NDP believes she really is a good leader, then we are better off with the NDP remaining in opposition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-9569257305684076572010-11-20T13:59:06.207-08:002010-11-20T13:59:06.207-08:00I am happy Carole survived the vote. I look forwar...I am happy Carole survived the vote. I look forward to seeing this smart, competent and caring woman as our next premier. The membership has spoken - let's hope the dissidents listen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-70304414889119247882010-11-20T13:19:12.917-08:002010-11-20T13:19:12.917-08:00Its time Ms.james stepped aside and let another le...Its time Ms.james stepped aside and let another lead the party to win the next election,she has had 2 tries and not made it.The NDP cannopt wait till the liberals have a bad numbers poll to win an election.We need someone who will take the Liberals to task over all the bad deals they have made, IE:BC Rail,Shadow Tolls, Run of the riveres are just a few and why has no one mentioned anything about the deputy chief of staff and her power,salery and expense account.<br /><br />jmo <br /><br />KeeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-85195068420305773262010-11-20T13:08:24.478-08:002010-11-20T13:08:24.478-08:00An Anonymous commenter is allegedly quiting the ND...An Anonymous commenter is allegedly quiting the NDP and warning of another decade of fiberal tule.<br /><br />Brilliant.<br /><br />But surely Jane Sterk has better things to do than commenting on this site.Ron1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-19879742525207983832010-11-20T12:52:40.870-08:002010-11-20T12:52:40.870-08:00I just heard that James got a overwhelming vote of...I just heard that James got a overwhelming vote of confidence at the NDP meeting today.<br /><br />Well, at least MOST of those who voted for her are not the unthinking, closed minded, ideological knee-jerks so many commenters on Bill's blog are. These are the radical, extremist death-wish people I referred to above (at 7:55 PM).<br /><br />James may very well NOT lead the NDP into the next election. But, at least the extremists have not gotten they wild-eyed way. Let the LIEberals self destruct; do NOT let the radical, extremist anti-James faction do it to the NDP.terrencenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-90647761317251336952010-11-20T11:03:59.254-08:002010-11-20T11:03:59.254-08:00I am done. I have cancelled my membership and sup...I am done. I have cancelled my membership and support for the NDP . The dimwits who have been attacking Carole James on this site are not the sort of people I want to associate with. I will vote Green in future. Enjoy your weekend guys..you have just assured another decade of LIB rule by your childish antics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-25290951115559635312010-11-20T10:02:57.775-08:002010-11-20T10:02:57.775-08:00@ Kevin Logan
great posts. If only Carole James ...@ Kevin Logan<br /><br />great posts. If only Carole James would have articulated smart and honest policy positions like you outlined. <br /><br />Its sad, she probably could have been a pretty good premier. But in politics, like comedy, timing is everything.<br /><br />It is too late now though (it's been over for her in the position of NDP leader ever since the disastrous 2009 NDP "campaign"). <br /><br />No one I know, aside from die-hard NDPers, will even consider voting for her and that was before Friday's melt down. <br /><br />I think there is a big chunk of voters who are looking for honest independent politicians who represent their constituents and if that's not there they don't bother voting.<br /><br />Thank goodness for the anti-HST campaign that's actually re-invigorated citizens to get involved in our democracy again.off-the-radarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-76539890487510589692010-11-20T09:55:47.234-08:002010-11-20T09:55:47.234-08:00Talk about yer "battered wife" or Stockh...Talk about yer "battered wife" or Stockholm syndrome. This from an avowed NDP member (and incidentally Carole "No Where Gal" James supporter).<br /><br />"<i>After the poor job we did in the 90s, </i>"<br /><br />It's a sure sign that the PABlum Brigade and bought and paid for media campaign to rewrite the history of the nineties is working fine - when the victims of the propaganda campaign buy into it themselves - Goebbels would be proud of Gordo the Magnificent and his merry band of crooks!kootcoothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11344208424209840730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-68240166535982498522010-11-20T09:13:54.933-08:002010-11-20T09:13:54.933-08:00The side, or should I say, majority of members in ...The side, or should I say, majority of members in the NDP that support Carole as leader, are putting forward a vision. It is one based on consensus, one based on a balanced approach, on that looks at managing this province in a holistic and fair manner. <br /><br />The problem with the other side is that I have heard little in the way of vision? They talk about the lack of policy directly, but do not offer a single policy themselves. <br /><br />After the poor job we did in the 90s, due in part to lack of true solidarity, and the circus that the Liberal party has turned into these last couple of years. The people of this province are most likely looking for stability and balance in a government. Unfortunately, this latest episode shows that we are not capable of that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-26212540370052463162010-11-20T09:03:11.837-08:002010-11-20T09:03:11.837-08:00I guess I got a bit long winded in my comments abo...I guess I got a bit long winded in my comments about Ms.James and her lack of leadership so the system told me it was too long.The shorter version is that she has been found wanting by a number of MLA's. She changes direction on many issues which confuses many of us. David mentioned Moe is a staffer, but I think he is actually the party leader, and one must wonder if previous presidents have been salaried, and how is it that the rest of the MLA's in the party were not party to the decision to hire him? MLAs are now questioning her style of ignoring their concerns.<br />A one legged dog would have increased the number of MLA's after the first term of Gordo kicking the s**t out of so many programs, breaking contracts and running rough shod over the people. No big increase on the second time around. Its time to go Ms. James, your so called leadership efforts have been found wanting by many people. <br />The NDP will survive without her and the sooner the better.<br />One more thing. The MLA's female and male who have come forward to press for change are not doing it on a whim. They remember how she mishandled the few who crossed her on the loss of ALR Lands , a long established NDP policy, on the transfer of such land requiring provincial control over the use of those lands.<br />The ones who have come forward are not her enemies, just elected or non elected party supporters.<br />When she was our MLA, not once did she bother to send out a article as to what she was doing. Maybe her theory was that she knew better than the people who put her there so don't bother to ask at least till next voting day.<br />The polls they are a changing, the NDP better not think they can sit idly by and slide into government. The opposition party position beckons.<br />"Leadership is an intangible art" as the saying goes. She appears not to have that skill. Heck I could be wrong but really doubt it.DPLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35935973.post-10814047047838377982010-11-20T08:39:42.038-08:002010-11-20T08:39:42.038-08:00Since when has the President of a political party ...Since when has the President of a political party become a staff person? Was Bruce Rolston paid a salary? Or other Presidents before him? I do agree with many of the comments posted here and am firmly convinced James is not the person to lead the NDP into the future. Many of us have asked her for help on certain things and got no response or a non committal response from her staff. When she was our MLA , not once did she bother to send out a flyer telling us what she was doing in the constituency. It seems that we were supposed to be lucky to have her, and it was our duty to support her and not the other way around. <br /><br />A good example of leadership is as follows."Leadership is an intangible art". She has been found wanting , in many peoples opinion, in the position of leader. Too many changes of position makes one wonder if she actually has a solid position on anything. I disagree that the three women MLA's who are standing up to James are "Nobodies", as that takes a lot of guts as they know if James stays, they will be shunned by her. They see what happened to another MLA who complained about her lousy speech to the UBCM convention. They know what happened to folks who disagreed with her on a treaty deal with the Tsawassen cooked up by Gordo on the loss of ALR Land will no conditions.she ignored the long standing NDP policy position on the transferring of ALR lands. Do they take such actions on a whim? No they take their position for the good of the political party to which they belong, and the people of BC who need support. It seems as well that some male MLA's are concerned about the apparent drift in the party. Are they all nobodies as well. Heck if they walk away, the crowd gets a lot thinner. Just sitting and hope that if Campbell would self destruct and the polls would stay high in their favor. Wistful thinking in my view and the most recent polls seem to agree. <br /><br />A one legged dog would have brought up the number of opposition members after a term of Gordo kicking the s**t out of so many social programs, cutting up legal contracts, and the list goes on.<br /><br />James may have done her best and is found wanting, so her next move should be for the good of the party and step aside. The NDP can and will outlive Ms,James. <br /><br />Let's see if the provincial council will do so serious talking this weekend and sort out the mess one way or the other before many other supporters vote with their feet. I have a lot of time for David with his number crunching but on this issue I sure differ a lot. The NDP needs to become government to stop the massive giveaways in BC, and Ms.James seems unable to rally the membership. Time for real change or the party will remain as the Official Opposition for a few more times. Heaven forbid, as we simply cannot afford to let that happen. <br /><br />Sorry to take up so much space, Bill, but I get so tired of excuses about how Ms.James will sort things out. She simply hasn't and a lot of people suffer.<br />The next few days should be interestingDPLnoreply@blogger.com