Comments on Bill Tieleman: Gutless NDP, Liberals help Conservatives try to ki...

2 billion dollar boondoggle,for the gun registry,f...

2009-11-16T08:43:03.547-08:00

2 billion dollar boondoggle,for the gun registry,for a computer system,that didn't work and another 4 billion for the small business and development bank,the grand hotel in Quebec scandal,sheila cops flag handout,the sponsorship scandal,what a great man this Chretien, character was and the queen even gave him a medal go figure,along with the rest of these incestuous,politicians Canada is done for!

Actually Grumps I emailed her and was told how she...

2009-11-16T08:06:32.194-08:00

Actually Grumps I emailed her and was told how she voted. I always prefer to contact my elected officials directly and to date have had no problem, mind you, my Mayor, MLA and MP are ready to takle theje time to tell folks who ask. I guess they figure the voters put them there so the like to be accountable. But thanks for your suggestion.

DPL, I take it you found out how your MP voted on ...

2009-11-15T10:08:04.596-08:00

DPL, I take it you found out how your MP voted on Bill C-391 at:

"How'd They Vote?" aims to be a non-partisan website which provides a variety of in-depth information on the operations of the Canadian Parliament,.... SNIP"

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/findmember.php?s=10 - To find your MP

However here's the full list of the MP's voting on the Repeal Long Gun Registry dated 2009-11-04 17:55:

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/vote.php?o=lvf_d&id=781#votes

I don't mind to register my guns. My only problem...

2009-11-14T21:28:39.049-08:00

I don't mind to register my guns. My only problem with the registry is why it has to cost so much money to maintain it. I guess there are many people and group benefit from the budget.

Honetly, the registry does not provide any safety at all. Just like vehicle licencing, we only know who owns what but there are still many fatal accidents on the road everyday. I personally dont believe that the officers will risk their safety base on the info provided by the registry while criminals don't register their guns.

I support gun licencing. I support gun registry. I also support licencing for Concealed Carry too. Give us that!

I am pleased to tell Heri Paul that my MP voted ag...

2009-11-14T19:04:38.110-08:00

I am pleased to tell Heri Paul that my MP voted against cutting down the resistry. But I noticed the Liberal next riding over voted to shut it down.But do free votes actually work that well? A caucus should be meeting prior to such votes and thrash it out among themselves. So lets hear some of Bill's other points early next week.
Lots of sound and fury on this item.

Bill Tieleman said...1:56 PM stay tuned for me t...

2009-11-14T16:16:11.606-08:00

Bill Tieleman said...1:56 PM
stay tuned for me to return fire with both barrels!
----------------------------------
There you go, if a normal person (with hair) made such a statement, the gestapo would kick down his front door demanding him to turn over his double barrel.

Thanks for the comments - well, some of them - and...

2009-11-14T13:56:07.916-08:00

Thanks for the comments - well, some of them - and I have lots of responses but I am saving them for next Tuesday's column here, in 24 hours newspaper and The Tyee - stay tuned for me to return fire with both barrels!

Okay, fact check: 1) The CACP's word on the regist...

2009-11-14T12:43:03.063-08:00

Okay, fact check:
1) The CACP's word on the registry is meaningless: They happily took money ($125,000) from a primary contractor (CGI) working on the gun registry. Their own ethics advisor quit because they would not stop accepting questionable payments from companies. They are not credible. End of story.

2) According to the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, less than 2% of firearms used in homicides are registered (http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/media/nr/2007/nr20071116-2-eng.aspx). The worst possible way to go after any type of crime is to target the tiniest segment with huge chunks of cash. $2 billion could tighten up our borders or hire a number of new police officers. Go after criminals, because after all....

3) ....Criminals don't register guns. Period. Ever.

4) Statistics Canada says that two thirds of all firearms homicides are with handguns, which are still registered as they were before. (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/080220/dq080220b-eng.htm). Gang crime is rising. Why don't we target our leaky borders and catch a few more illegal guns, rather than confiscate firearms from the law-abiding.

5) LICENSING and REGISTRATION are two very different animals. Licensing provides a screening process that can actually block unsuitable people from legally purchasing firearms. Registration has no equivalent safety increase. Anti-gun lobbyists love to confuse the issue for Canadians. You have to question their motives behind that.

DPL said... 7:49 AM So how does anon know that th...

2009-11-14T10:03:21.082-08:00

DPL said... 7:49 AM
So how does anon know that the MP's all voted the way their constituents wanted them to vote? Or for that matter, was in the house at the time.
------------------------------
Here is a way to find out about the questions you ask of your MP, or any MP for that matter.
My MP voted for the Gun registry, which doesn't surprise me as he never did grow any gonads. This Monday I will personally tell him that.

http://www.howdtheyvote.ca/

So how does anon know that the MP's all voted the ...

2009-11-14T07:49:50.151-08:00

So how does anon know that the MP's all voted the way their constituents wanted them to vote? Or for that matter, was in the hoiuse at the time. My MP sends out news articles and askes what issues concern us. The gun registry was, as far as I can recall, not one of the issues. And yes, she is NDP and I expect to hear from her as I have requested. The other option is go back to Hansard and see who voted for what.

All those people have made the point very clearly ...

2009-11-14T03:02:54.395-08:00

All those people have made the point very clearly so I am not going to comment anyting. All I want to say is: Bill, I've been on your side all the time, but I have to say that I am disappointed this time. I just can't believe that you would've said something such stupid and non-sense.

CACP is a registered lobby group(Look it up if you...

2009-11-13T21:00:37.649-08:00

CACP is a registered lobby group(Look it up if you don't believe me).Believing them would be like believing a tabacco lobbying group that tells you smoking is good for you.

I'm still wondering why your so upset that our elected officials voted the way the majority of their constituants wanted them to.Is democracy so repugnent to you?

First of all Bill the police like anything that al...

2009-11-13T20:44:18.317-08:00

First of all Bill the police like anything that allows them to track citizens law abiding or otherwise.

The long gun registry was a $2 billion boondoggle that criminalised hunters and farmers while doing nothing to curb urban gang violence.

First of all gang bangers use hand guns and d'oh criminals do not register their because duh their criminals.

The long gun registry did worse than waste taxpayers money it created amongst the terminally urban naive the illusion that this was doing something about gun violence.

It is much like the closing of gun ranges in metro Vancouver. Again a political sop to the ill informed, and another cost to the taxpayer when the slapheads realised that the police used those gun ranges for proficiency training, and then had to construct a new indoor range.

So far from being gutless let me instead thank those rural Lib and NDP MPs for representing the views of their constituents rather than being continued to being bullied by the terminally naive urban anti gun voter.

Mike Geoghegan

Point taken Gary E. If the measurement is, does B...

2009-11-13T11:38:01.327-08:00

Point taken Gary E. If the measurement is, does Bill Tieleman get people motivated to talk about issues then yes, he does a great job. However that is not the only concern. If the only way to get people talking is by inserting misleading and/or false statements (I don't know in this case but I've seen it before), then he discredits himself. As I said, our "democracy" is the failure and Bill's blog is not unlike what happens in our political arena.

Well it seems that the article raised a few hackle...

2009-11-13T10:26:38.950-08:00

Well it seems that the article raised a few hackles. Now if the same folks could be steered to argue to reduce child poverty, raise the minimume wage and keep the medical system working we would be in better shape.
I don't own a gun anymore, my last one was a 32 Cal. Berreta.I have no need for one.

The family farmer does have a couple of rifles to shoot stray dogs that drop by to savage his sheep now and again. Each year I go get the special permit he needs, from the conservation officers and get the same comments about call the cops before you shoot, and if its a deer , here is how its the be field dressed, and all parts must go to a family selected by the government and on it goes. Of course his guns are registered, as its part of doing business. If a working farmer can take the time to register his guns, why not the sports hunter? Maybe some folks feel that governments are meddling in their affairs, but maybe they all complain as they figure they are losing the wild west senario, something that hasn't existd in this country for a very long time.
The cost should not be the overriding issue, safety and being able to track weapons should be the important point. If the registry is a bit screwed up, well time to improve it not throw it away.

First of all stating support for the registry base...

2009-11-13T10:10:57.605-08:00

First of all stating support for the registry based on the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police (CACP) claims of the registry is accessed 10,000 times a day. Lets be honest here it does not matter how many times you state this fact it does not make it any more relevant. Actually it hurts the support for the registry because while it is true the way it is constantly twisted makes it and outright overstatement. Anyone that has paid attention to this debate knows full well this number is no where near an accurate number of legitimate police access to the system that in any way helped a office do there job.

Let’s also not forget the CACP is a political lobby group which is not accountable to the people of Canada. Let’s also not forget they accept corporate donations. I hold there opinion the same as any other lobby group with a touch of distrust, but that is part of the problem because most people do not know they are a lobby group. We must even question chief Bill Blair’s agenda let’s not forget the Major of Toronto is ravenously anti-gun and chief Bill Blair is his appointee.

Let’s say I agree with your number of 8.4 Million which I don’t. Let’s say we invested that money in MRI facilities and staff? What do you think would have a greater impact on the lives of Canadians? I think it is a safe bet the MRI facilities would win hands down. Not only that we would have tangible tractable results. Let’s not forget the government has a set limit of recourses it can put forth every year.

Why do those that support the registry constantly confuse licensing and registration is it by design or they not understand the topic at hand even in the most basic way. Either way it’s unacceptable.

If there was any proof the registry actually did anything positive don’t you think the CACP would have something better to say then it is access 10,000 times a day. I’m sure the Liberals would love to be able to say look at the great results of this 2 Billion investment in public safety. Finally the Coalition for Gun Control could come up with better numbers in terms lives saved other then one that can be easily explained by a drop in suicides which actually is countered by the fact the rate of suicide statistically remained unchanged. Even then this was not the registry in action but licensing and waiting periods.

I don’t view either a yes or no vote on this topic gutless. It is a very politically charged issue. The only vote I view gutless on this topic is if someone did not vote.

At one point in time I was very anti-gun. Upon having my views challenged multiple times I keep coming back to the same conclusion. Emotionally I was anti-gun, but factually I could not support it. I eventually took up one of the many offers that had been offered to me in the past and went to a range as a guest. Long story short I now participate in two shooting sports and my wife participates in one.

Cariboo Carl I live in the Cariboo and know the p...

2009-11-13T09:11:29.514-08:00

Cariboo Carl

I live in the Cariboo and know the perils of the registry. And I vehemently disagree with Bill on this matter. I am also a member of the NDP Provincially and Vote for them Federally for other reasons.
But Bill is here to voice his opinion and provoke thought on the matters at hand. He does that very successfully both here and in other online messengers. To call this blog a failure is ridiculous.
Maybe , just maybe, the thought provocation here will help the 75% of BC's population to get off their collective asses and start voting.

A new tibit. The CAPC accepted a donationfrom GCI,...

2009-11-13T07:55:01.446-08:00

A new tibit. The CAPC accepted a donationfrom GCI, the company that runs the firearms registry for $117000. They also accepted a $250000 donation from Taser intl. The CAPC ethics commissioner has since resigned over non disclosure of corporate donors. Hmmmmm begs the question why Bill Blair is so interested in seeing the registry continue.

Sir, there are many falsehoods and misleading stat...

2009-11-13T05:25:59.425-08:00

Sir, there are many falsehoods and misleading statements in your blog, most of those have been addressed, however, I am going to take exception to another one. If you investigate further you will find that most gun owners in this country would be classified as URBAN not rural. The typical use may be in rural areas however most owners reside in urban areas. I guess we are not all rednecks...also a nice change to see politicians voting for their constituents, not telling them they do not matter, we know better than you what is good for you....

Typical slant from Mr. Tieleman when he finally ha...

2009-11-12T20:00:26.219-08:00

Typical slant from Mr. Tieleman when he finally has something worth saying. Great topic because it's so controversial. If he had stayed on topic this could be considered a great blog but lo and behold, out come his political views that dictators are wonderful people.

Gutless!?! Did I read that right? Playing follow the leader is gutless? Allowing people you supposedly "control" to speak their own mind is a bold move, not gutless. I'll start voting when free votes become the norm instead of the exception. Until then our "democracy" is a failure, much like Mr. Tieleman's blog.

Perhaps the failure of our system is that we have politicians who won't listen to experts in their field such as the police in the long-gun registry matter. Perhaps the vote on this issue should not have been done by the MPs, instead they could have had the "guts" to defer to the police chiefs. Unless this might set a precedent, such as having scientists decide how to handle climate change or health professionals determine hospital service levels or business leaders give feedback on impact of proposed major tax changes before implementation.

This should have been a no-brainer, perhaps explains why elected officials act as a puppets instead of thinking for themselves more often, I won't argue that it will save lives but we couldn't possibly be worse off with the registry. And yet, with so much ammunition to post a scathing attack that even some of his opponents are in agreement with him, Mr. Tieleman still gets it wrong in blaming opposition leaders for the result of the free vote.

Bill, I was a supporter of firearms registration b...

2009-11-12T18:48:32.366-08:00

Bill, I was a supporter of firearms registration but you are doing progun control advocates damage by quoting stats. The facts don't support our position for GC anymore in the form of a registry. Anybody can read the information put out now by Stats. Canada, the Justice Department etc. Their is better ways to spend $2B to reduce violent crime.

Bill - this column was nothing short of bigoted. ...

2009-11-12T18:03:49.884-08:00

Bill - this column was nothing short of bigoted.

Long gun owners are not criminals. In fact, as a group they commit far less crimes than the 'average' canadian. So a person in a room with you is far more 'at risk' than they are with me and my guns.

Maybe we should register 'radio hosts'?

Your logic is no different than when they registered the Jews in the war. WE ARE NOT CRIMINALS, and the stats prove it. I shouldn't have to risk jail for a 'paperwork' offense.

Wow are you ever missinformed. Go ahead and belie...

2009-11-12T18:02:03.256-08:00

Wow are you ever missinformed.

Go ahead and believe everything that CFGC tells you.

What is a few billion between friends anyway.

Firearms death stats? Here you go, Bill. http://...

2009-11-12T17:24:11.386-08:00

Firearms death stats?

Here you go, Bill.

http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/media/nr/2007/nr20071116-2-eng.aspx

Less than 2% of homicides since 2003 were committed with registered long guns.

You think the police on the street are for the registry?

An officer in Edmonton has been polling police across the country for a number of months now, and the results so far (Nov. 19) are:

2053 for scrapping the registry
188 for keeping it

Believe what you like about CAPC being a political organization. It's pretty clear to me that they don't speak for the police on the street.

"The fact that criminals use unregistered handguns to murder people doesn't mean that registering other guns is a waste of time - use some logic! If anything, the thugs who are terrorizing our cities would love to see even more unregistered guns available to them - think about it."

Hard to believe this is true, Bill, when most (97%) of the unregistered guns seized in Vancouver in 2003 (see the above link) were illegal guns smuggled in from the US.

And again, we have the tired old number of 10,000 accesses of the registry per day. Well, only 19 of those queries are based on a registration number.
The rest are based on other info (name, address, Licence #, etc.) which will still remain after the end of the long gun registry. Not to mention the fact
that a routine traffic stop/drivers licence check automatically queries the registry system....

As to making police safer, checking the registry may or may not tell them what firearms are in the house. Since the registry is incomplete, filled
with out of date and inaccurate data, and does not account for both unregistered or legally borrowed firearms, no police officer should dare risking his life based on the information in it. All you need is the licencing database. If the person has a firearms licence, then assume there are firearms present.

Hell, if I was an officer answering a call, I'd assume firearms present in ANY case, regardless of what the licencing or registry databases said.

You really don't know what you're talking about Bi...

2009-11-12T15:28:50.198-08:00

You really don't know what you're talking about Billy.

See article.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/11/11/project-safe-city.aspx